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AV sucks
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-18 10:06 PM (#672254 - in reply to #671829)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Mandar - 2017-04-18 12:27 PM

PV29 - 2017-04-18 3:02 PM

LeetchyMrRanger - 2017-04-18 7:15 AM

What coaching experience does Mess have? A great player does not a great coach or executive make, we have seen this time & time again in all of sports.

There's no hard evidence to support this either way. Great players have made good and bad coaches. You'll only know when they get a shot.

Besides, at this point I'd rather see JOBY Messier behind the bench instead of Chewie the Gum.

#FireAV


Joby....




Mini moose?
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PV29
Posted 2017-04-21 12:03 PM (#672786 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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Bump. Because Holden.
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rjpny75
Posted 2017-04-21 2:28 PM (#672796 - in reply to #672786)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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PV29 - 2017-04-21 2:03 PM

Bump. Because Holden.


LOL
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-04-22 8:56 PM (#673261 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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AV takes out Julien this time, his old friend & nemesis.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-22 10:57 PM (#673298 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Julien did about as good as what he could with what he had.
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Tyutin in the Staal
Posted 2017-04-23 3:02 AM (#673299 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Let's give AV a break. His moves do appear to be odd at times, but he does win. This series was surprising on many levels. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes driving the decisions he makes. The NYR took out the team with the best goalie and now we'll face Ottawa or Boston. This is shaping up to be a very exciting post season! Let's go Bruins, force a game 7 and hit Karlsson hard!
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-04-23 5:48 AM (#673303 - in reply to #673298)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rranger - 2017-04-22 10:57 PM

Julien did about as good as what he could with what he had.


Agreed, they did all they could from their side of things. The talent, speed, team here though was too much for them to overcome.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-04-24 1:37 PM (#673374 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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I was out of the country since Wednesday, so just catching up on things. Just want to say that anyone saying that Steve Ott was what we needed at the deadline was a bit off from what I saw. Other than some cute stuff after the whistle (and some faceoff wins early in the series), he and his linemates got dominated pretty much every shift.

We have decent size and a few guys - Vesey, Lindberg and especially Nash went tit-for-tat with Montreal's muscle. If Kreider, Hayes and Miller do the same in round 2 we're solid in that department again.

Lastly, I guess Fast is a playoff performer - noticed a lot from him in that series. He's better in a defense first situation - there's no way AV should take him, Lindberg and Grabner apart.

Edited by sureshore 2017-04-24 1:38 PM
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Mandar
Posted 2017-04-24 2:20 PM (#673375 - in reply to #673374)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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sureshore - 2017-04-24 3:37 PM

I was out of the country since Wednesday, so just catching up on things. Just want to say that anyone saying that Steve Ott was what we needed at the deadline was a bit off from what I saw. Other than some cute stuff after the whistle (and some faceoff wins early in the series), he and his linemates got dominated pretty much every shift.

We have decent size and a few guys - Vesey, Lindberg and especially Nash went tit-for-tat with Montreal's muscle. If Kreider, Hayes and Miller do the same in round 2 we're solid in that department again.

Lastly, I guess Fast is a playoff performer - noticed a lot from him in that series. He's better in a defense first situation - there's no way AV should take him, Lindberg and Grabner apart.


yeah...but what about all that "Albert" stuff? I mean, we heard it AD NAUSEUM....it had to be true, right? It HAD TO BE TRUE.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-04-24 2:51 PM (#673376 - in reply to #673375)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Mandar - 2017-04-24 4:20 PM

sureshore - 2017-04-24 3:37 PM

I was out of the country since Wednesday, so just catching up on things. Just want to say that anyone saying that Steve Ott was what we needed at the deadline was a bit off from what I saw. Other than some cute stuff after the whistle (and some faceoff wins early in the series), he and his linemates got dominated pretty much every shift.

We have decent size and a few guys - Vesey, Lindberg and especially Nash went tit-for-tat with Montreal's muscle. If Kreider, Hayes and Miller do the same in round 2 we're solid in that department again.

Lastly, I guess Fast is a playoff performer - noticed a lot from him in that series. He's better in a defense first situation - there's no way AV should take him, Lindberg and Grabner apart.


yeah...but what about all that "Albert" stuff? I mean, we heard it AD NAUSEUM....it had to be true, right? It HAD TO BE TRUE.


right - but you never heard it from me
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-04-25 12:52 PM (#673401 - in reply to #671826)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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PV29 - 2017-04-18 3:02 PM

Great players have made good and bad coaches.
#FireAV


OK - I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. Name a great player that made a good coach.
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PV29
Posted 2017-04-25 4:56 PM (#673407 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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Jacques Lemaire.
Larry Robinson.

Quenneville and Arbour were solid, not great, players who made excellent coaches.

Gerry Cheevers, Bob Gainey, and Bill Barber were good coaches that could've done better over time but I think they got tired of coaching.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-04-25 7:01 PM (#673415 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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OK -- I'll give you Robinson -- personally, never considered Lemaire a "great" -- then again, those Habs teams were so loaded....
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PV29
Posted 2017-04-25 9:06 PM (#673419 - in reply to #673374)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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sureshore - 2017-04-24 3:37 PM

I was out of the country since Wednesday, so just catching up on things. Just want to say that anyone saying that Steve Ott was what we needed at the deadline was a bit off from what I saw. Other than some cute stuff after the whistle (and some faceoff wins early in the series), he and his linemates got dominated pretty much every shift.

We have decent size and a few guys - Vesey, Lindberg and especially Nash went tit-for-tat with Montreal's muscle. If Kreider, Hayes and Miller do the same in round 2 we're solid in that department again.

Lastly, I guess Fast is a playoff performer - noticed a lot from him in that series. He's better in a defense first situation - there's no way AV should take him, Lindberg and Grabner apart.

Trying to project what Ott would do with the Rangers based on how he did with the Habs is not an accurate assessment considering the disparity in offensive talent up front between the teams. The Habs had to get bigger for the playoffs, especially since they weren't getting any offensive help at the deadline. They were built to win games 1 - 0, 2- 1, and Ott fit that style. Either Ott or King would make the Rangers better equipped to deal with a team with both physicality and offensive scoring ability. Caps and/or Pens.

If the Habs had an acquisition that was a big letdown in this series it was Weber. Watching the replays of the games he was seemingly on ice for virtually every Rangers goal. He was not the impact player he was touted to be when they acquired him.

Despite the Rangers winning the series I'm still not convinced that they can sustain that type of physicality and win a series if their opponent has some scoring as well. How many breakaways and prime chances did the Habs not convert? Some of that was Henrik being on his game, and dome was that the Habs don't have guys like Justin Williams, Oshie, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Crosby, Kessel, Bonino, Rust, etc. The good news is, neither do the Sens.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-26 9:48 AM (#673423 - in reply to #673419)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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PV29 - 2017-04-25 8:06 PM

sureshore - 2017-04-24 3:37 PM

I was out of the country since Wednesday, so just catching up on things. Just want to say that anyone saying that Steve Ott was what we needed at the deadline was a bit off from what I saw. Other than some cute stuff after the whistle (and some faceoff wins early in the series), he and his linemates got dominated pretty much every shift.

We have decent size and a few guys - Vesey, Lindberg and especially Nash went tit-for-tat with Montreal's muscle. If Kreider, Hayes and Miller do the same in round 2 we're solid in that department again.

Lastly, I guess Fast is a playoff performer - noticed a lot from him in that series. He's better in a defense first situation - there's no way AV should take him, Lindberg and Grabner apart.

Trying to project what Ott would do with the Rangers based on how he did with the Habs is not an accurate assessment considering the disparity in offensive talent up front between the teams. The Habs had to get bigger for the playoffs, especially since they weren't getting any offensive help at the deadline. They were built to win games 1 - 0, 2- 1, and Ott fit that style. Either Ott or King would make the Rangers better equipped to deal with a team with both physicality and offensive scoring ability. Caps and/or Pens.

If the Habs had an acquisition that was a big letdown in this series it was Weber. Watching the replays of the games he was seemingly on ice for virtually every Rangers goal. He was not the impact player he was touted to be when they acquired him.

Despite the Rangers winning the series I'm still not convinced that they can sustain that type of physicality and win a series if their opponent has some scoring as well. How many breakaways and prime chances did the Habs not convert? Some of that was Henrik being on his game, and dome was that the Habs don't have guys like Justin Williams, Oshie, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Crosby, Kessel, Bonino, Rust, etc. The good news is, neither do the Sens.





I saw Ott's line constantly pressuring the Rangers D and had entire shifts with the puck in the Rangers end. They just couldn't put the puck in the net.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-26 9:49 AM (#673424 - in reply to #673415)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Mjolnir - 2017-04-25 6:01 PM

OK -- I'll give you Robinson -- personally, never considered Lemaire a "great" -- then again, those Habs teams were so loaded....



Respectfully disagree, Lemaire was very, very underrated.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-04-26 11:00 AM (#673429 - in reply to #673415)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Mjolnir - 2017-04-25 9:01 PM

OK -- I'll give you Robinson -- personally, never considered Lemaire a "great" -- then again, those Habs teams were so loaded....


I never considered Lemaire a great but at AllStar weekend this year, when they named their top 100 NHL players of all time, there he was. His was a name I couldn't fathom being there when others were left off. But I did find the list very Montreal biased
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sureshore
Posted 2017-04-26 11:02 AM (#673430 - in reply to #673424)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rranger - 2017-04-26 11:49 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-04-25 6:01 PM

OK -- I'll give you Robinson -- personally, never considered Lemaire a "great" -- then again, those Habs teams were so loaded....



Respectfully disagree, Lemaire was very, very underrated.
see my quote above - he made all time top 100 list so not underrated. I think making the list makes him overrated

https://www.nhl.com/fans/nhl-centennial/100-greatest-nhl-players

and there's this to support my thoughts about the Canadiens and Lemaire in particular

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-reveals-top-100-players-of-all-tim...



Edited by sureshore 2017-04-26 11:06 AM
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-26 11:23 AM (#673431 - in reply to #673430)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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sureshore - 2017-04-26 10:02 AM

Rranger - 2017-04-26 11:49 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-04-25 6:01 PM

OK -- I'll give you Robinson -- personally, never considered Lemaire a "great" -- then again, those Habs teams were so loaded....



Respectfully disagree, Lemaire was very, very underrated.
see my quote above - he made all time top 100 list so not underrated. I think making the list makes him overrated

https://www.nhl.com/fans/nhl-centennial/100-greatest-nhl-players

and there's this to support my thoughts about the Canadiens and Lemaire in particular

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-reveals-top-100-players-of-all-tim...





So I disagree with you and many others who think he's overrated. I didn't read the articles, I don't know how someone could compare a dead hockey player who they never saw play, to someone they watched for their entire career. If it's Montreal loaded you might want to check their total cup wins, it takes great players. During Lemaires entire career he was overshadowed by teammates and other opposing centres on all star teams ect. Lemaire went head to head with the best and usually came out on top.
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PV29
Posted 2017-04-26 2:06 PM (#673437 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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The Hockey Hall of Fame just called. They said that all the players inducted into their building are "great", especially the ones who won 8 Cups and scored 350+ goals, 800+ points over a 12 year career.

I thanked them and told them that I would let you guys know.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-04-26 6:29 PM (#673442 - in reply to #673437)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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PV29 - 2017-04-26 4:06 PM

The Hockey Hall of Fame just called. They said that all the players inducted into their building are "great", especially the ones who won 8 Cups and scored 350+ goals, 800+ points over a 12 year career.

I thanked them and told them that I would let you guys know.


No problem - we can agree to disagree somewhat.

I'll give you that he's certainly the best player/best coach combo. I guess I still don't think that of the 238 members of the Hall of fame as well as active, future hall of famers, that Lemaire belongs in the top 100. And maybe I am looking at it with anti-Habs blinders on, but many, many players who were pretty damn good on other teams got screwed over because the league pretty much handed every top French-Canadian to Montreal back then, thus the dynasty. His stats are as much from being on those teams with a legendary coach and an all-time great on his wing but perhaps he would have made the hall of fame in Buffalo or St. Louis. We'll never know.

Maybe because I'm older than many on this board and watched too many games where Forum fans would basically ref the game, but I really do hate the Canadiens nearly as much as the Islanders, Flyers or Pens. So there's that too.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-26 6:52 PM (#673443 - in reply to #673437)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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PV29 - 2017-04-26 1:06 PM

The Hockey Hall of Fame just called. They said that all the players inducted into their building are "great", especially the ones who won 8 Cups and scored 350+ goals, 800+ points over a 12 year career.

I thanked them and told them that I would let you guys know.





No doubt in my mind he was great.
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PV29
Posted 2017-04-27 1:18 PM (#673462 - in reply to #673442)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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sureshore - 2017-04-26 8:29 PM

No problem - we can agree to disagree somewhat.

I'll give you that he's certainly the best player/best coach combo. I guess I still don't think that of the 238 members of the Hall of fame as well as active, future hall of famers, that Lemaire belongs in the top 100. And maybe I am looking at it with anti-Habs blinders on, but many, many players who were pretty damn good on other teams got screwed over because the league pretty much handed every top French-Canadian to Montreal back then, thus the dynasty. His stats are as much from being on those teams with a legendary coach and an all-time great on his wing but perhaps he would have made the hall of fame in Buffalo or St. Louis. We'll never know.

Maybe because I'm older than many on this board and watched too many games where Forum fans would basically ref the game, but I really do hate the Canadiens nearly as much as the Islanders, Flyers or Pens. So there's that too.


I guess you missed my rant before Game 1 about how much I hate the Habs.

Despite my hatred for them, I grudgingly give respect to some of those players who were truly outstanding. Lemaire was one of those. There was a reason that he centered Lafleur and Shutt. He was the best center on the team, and yes, that includes Gainey.

I hated the son of a bitch when he played, possibly hated him more when he coached the Devils. But I can't deny that he was a great player on a dynasty team. Downplaying how good he was because he was on a great team is like saying that Jeter was not that good, he only played on a great team. (I dislike the Yankees as well).
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-27 3:49 PM (#673473 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Nobody likes Montreal. Nobody. Lol.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-04-28 3:35 AM (#673751 - in reply to #673473)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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Rranger - 2017-04-27 5:49 PM

Nobody likes Montreal. Nobody. Lol.
Wrong.
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