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Latest NYR rumors...
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Vua
Posted 2017-09-16 2:33 PM (#680081 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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You'll have to buy out either one so you may as well keep Staal's slightly less salary for that.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-16 3:15 PM (#680082 - in reply to #680081)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Vua - 2017-09-16 2:33 PM

You'll have to buy out either one so you may as well keep Staal's slightly less salary for that.

Yep...Backes contract is an atrocity ...worse than Staals
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concust
Posted 2017-09-17 7:35 AM (#680096 - in reply to #680080)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Spider3WideBanana - 2017-09-16 3:04 PM

What about Backes for Staal straight up? Two bad contracts, theoretically fills a need on both teams?


That's actually an interesting idea.

Staal - $5.7m through 2021, full NMC throughout
Backes - $6m through 2021, NMC for 3 years, then has trade list for last 2 years

Difference of only $300k per year. In return you get some trade flexibility at the end.

And as pointed out, you trade away a problem defenseman for a center, which you need. Sure he's overpaid but he still hit almost 40 points last year. And if you're in the camp of "Shatty replaces Stepan's output" then you have to compare Backes' 38 points to Staals... 10 points.

Either way you have a contract of about $6m on the books until 2021. Backes' is slightly more expensive but actually easier to move.

Boston wouldn't do it though, even though Backes is a somewhat overpaid center, Staal is a grossly overpaid defenseman. You'd have to throw in some sweetener to the deal, maybe you can get them to retain the $300k if it's sweet enough.


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Vua
Posted 2017-09-17 8:07 AM (#680101 - in reply to #680096)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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concust - 2017-09-17 7:35 AM

Spider3WideBanana - 2017-09-16 3:04 PM

What about Backes for Staal straight up? Two bad contracts, theoretically fills a need on both teams?


That's actually an interesting idea.

Staal - $5.7m through 2021, full NMC throughout
Backes - $6m through 2021, NMC for 3 years, then has trade list for last 2 years

Difference of only $300k per year. In return you get some trade flexibility at the end.

And as pointed out, you trade away a problem defenseman for a center, which you need. Sure he's overpaid but he still hit almost 40 points last year. And if you're in the camp of "Shatty replaces Stepan's output" then you have to compare Backes' 38 points to Staals... 10 points.

Either way you have a contract of about $6m on the books until 2021. Backes' is slightly more expensive but actually easier to move.

Boston wouldn't do it though, even though Backes is a somewhat overpaid center, Staal is a grossly overpaid defenseman. You'd have to throw in some sweetener to the deal, maybe you can get them to retain the $300k if it's sweet enough.




Well I'm not in that camp. I just expect better defensive play this year. And I'd rather not have a $6 million per year third line center when you already have a 3rd line center playing on the 2nd line. We need to improve at the center position, not trade for the immovable contract of a mush head center who is 1 hit away from having his career end. Well I guess you could reserve his spot on LTIR and free up space that way. But you'd have to spend to the cap every year to use it and have zero flexibility in season.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-17 8:56 AM (#680102 - in reply to #680101)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Vua - 2017-09-17 10:07 AM
I just expect better defensive play this year.


Then I have some bad new for you, Vua. Saw this in the Post yesterday:

"The Blueshirts immediately got to work on their systems, specifically defensive-zone and net-front coverage during Saturday’s drills. Vigneault said though the club would incorporate some overall modifications into its game, the D-zone theory had not changed."
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-17 9:16 AM (#680103 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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The Rangers need to remain in a position to acquire by free agency or hook or crook a number 1 center. I get the Backes flexibility down the road minimal as it is. You still have a washed up, overpaid almost totally depreciated asset no one will want when the trade window opens. May as well keep Staal who you hope is effective with a reduced role, and maybe Ruff's coaching can make up for double mint trying to turn Staal into a gazelle. Staal is a stay at home, shut down, penalty killer. Not in any way shape or form one of double mints wet dream prototype's. If he gets used to his strengths and doesn't have a boat anchor like Holden for a partner a bounce back year could be in order.
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Vua
Posted 2017-09-17 10:00 AM (#680105 - in reply to #680102)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Mjolnir - 2017-09-17 8:56 AM

Vua - 2017-09-17 10:07 AM
I just expect better defensive play this year.


Then I have some bad new for you, Vua. Saw this in the Post yesterday:

"The Blueshirts immediately got to work on their systems, specifically defensive-zone and net-front coverage during Saturday’s drills. Vigneault said though the club would incorporate some overall modifications into its game, the D-zone theory had not changed."


I didn't expect a system change which would help the most. I expect them to completely hang Hank out to dry every game like they usually do. But I also expect them to be able to get the puck out of the zone with more consistency, especially if Staal is watching from the booth (hahahaha, just kidding).
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concust
Posted 2017-09-17 10:49 AM (#680106 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Wow, you'd rather have Staal than Backes, straight up? That wouldn't make the team better? It certainly dorsn't make it worse.
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concust
Posted 2017-09-17 10:53 AM (#680107 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Ultimately it's not the system that's the problem. Nor is it the players. It's the continued insistence on forcing whichever players you have into whatever system you think is right. The job of the coach is to maximize the strengths of your team while minimizing the weaknesses. When you try to make people into "system players" that's when you fail. The ideal system, is different for every set of guys.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-17 11:15 AM (#680108 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Yes any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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Vua
Posted 2017-09-17 11:31 AM (#680109 - in reply to #680106)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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concust - 2017-09-17 10:49 AM

Wow, you'd rather have Staal than Backes, straight up? That wouldn't make the team better? It certainly dorsn't make it worse.


I don't want either. But Staal has a better chance of surviving to be bought out than Backes does. LTIR may sound great but it isn't. You have to max the cap to use it all and you gain no cap space throughout the season with someone on it. Right now the Rangers will have somewhere around $15 million in space at the deadline. Flexibility.
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Spider3WideBanana
Posted 2017-09-17 1:14 PM (#680112 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Idk..... I'd pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat. Backes is a big body and can skate, also a former Captain in STL, so at worst, he brings better offsetting points (Shatty=Stepan/Staal) and he can move throughout the lineup. Boston has him listed as a LW2 currently, and frankly, Staal no longer has a place on this team. On Boston, he can help a young D group.
The salaries offset. He can slide up to play with Nash and allow you to reunite the Miller-Hayes- Grabner line , which was arguably our best last season.
Staal could play with McAvoy, while keeping Krug with an aging Chara.
It's a win-win.
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-17 3:55 PM (#680115 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Why would we want a big body center? Wouldn't we rather have Backes on the wing and play Desharnais at center?
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Vua
Posted 2017-09-17 4:04 PM (#680116 - in reply to #680112)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Spider3WideBanana - 2017-09-17 1:14 PM

Idk..... I'd pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat. Backes is a big body and can skate, also a former Captain in STL, so at worst, he brings better offsetting points (Shatty=Stepan/Staal) and he can move throughout the lineup. Boston has him listed as a LW2 currently, and frankly, Staal no longer has a place on this team. On Boston, he can help a young D group.
The salaries offset. He can slide up to play with Nash and allow you to reunite the Miller-Hayes- Grabner line , which was arguably our best last season.
Staal could play with McAvoy, while keeping Krug with an aging Chara.
It's a win-win.


Cool. Go be GM of the Islanders. We need a number 1 or 2 center, not a 3rd line center that is paid like a 1, whose production is in a nosedive as his years of being overly physical catches up to him. You will have to buy out either one in the next year or two. Buy out the cheaper guy.
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Spider3WideBanana
Posted 2017-09-17 5:29 PM (#680120 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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And.... where is that 1/2 C coming from, and from/FOR who? My point was trading an overpaid asset for another overpaid assert at a desirable role, for this season and Staal is obsolete with OUR D depth.
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Vua
Posted 2017-09-17 6:09 PM (#680124 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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And in today's NHL you don't worry about just this season unless you're in a position to win the Cup. We aren't so the trade is useless.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-18 10:00 AM (#680155 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Rangers defense is far from rock solid. I'd far rather say goodbye to Holden and have Staal on the roster for now. Bryzgalov, D'Angelo Graves and Pionk got it to do. 2 of those guys are going to be on the roster one as the seventh man. Unless of course they keep Holden then all bets are off. Staal will be overpaid but suited for a third pair guy that can play up the lineup if Smith struggles like he did against Ottawa.
I know what Backes can bring, but he's just another eventual buyout waiting to happen.
If Backes was going to make them better without weakening the defense then ya, but right now Staal can anchor the third pair playing a role, (shut down, PK) that suits his game.

Edited by Rranger 2017-09-18 7:30 PM
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sureshore
Posted 2017-09-19 6:15 AM (#680265 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Why do I believe we'll be seeing Staal/Holden as the 3rd pair (or God help us the 2nd pair) when the regular season begins? As much as it's sinful to think of, I believe it because that's how things work in the World's most famous arena with our beloved Rangers.

I don't care who goes - Holden clearly sucks and if he goes and Staal still sucks (as he most definitely will) the same people will start blaming Pionk, DeAngelo, Bryzgalov or whoever his new partner is, calling them an anchor that causes Staal's awful play. Face it - Staal is no longer the player he once was - the book on him the past few seasons is dump it in his corner and watch him slowly go towards the boards, allowing for a puck battle which he'll eventually lose. Why Boston (or any other team) would trade for him is beyond comprehension - they see his game a lot closer up than we do. Whether it's trading one bad salary for another, it still remains that there needs to be some level of quality on the ice. What Staal would do for the play of McEvoy or any other young defenseman is a whole lot more negative than positive.

okay - that's my rant for this week
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-19 6:47 AM (#680267 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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I think Staal will do just fine as a stay at home bottom pair vet who maybe gets some pk time.

McDonagh is our #1 on the top pair

There's no way Staal plays over Skjei on the 2nd pair.... no way.... I don't care what reputation the organization has about playing vets.... Skjei isn't a rookie anymore.... he's a proven home grown talent, and AV likes him.... he's playing.

So unless Staal is moving to Skjei's right side, or visa versa, that leaves Staal as the #3LD

Which is fine. He's overpaid... I'd like him traded... but If Marc Staal is on your bottom pair, you're in pretty good shape imo.

McDonagh Shattenkirk
Skjei Smith
Staal Pionk
Holden DeAngelo

Seems to be the depth chart early on
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concust
Posted 2017-09-19 8:40 AM (#680272 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Hard to say about the defense -, I think we should hopefully have a clearer picture after Team B has its turn vs the Devils. Personally I thought Bereglazov had a terrible rookie camp but I'd like to see him play against (mixed) NHL talent. NJ actually has some forwards with skill that they'll have to deal with.

I really see no reason to keep Holden around at all, unless they decide just to stick him in the press box. If Bereglazov does poorly and gets demoted, he'll go back to the KHL and then your third pair will be Staal and a kid, with Holden as the extra.
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-19 8:56 AM (#680276 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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I could see with the lack of forward depth carrying 8 defenseman on the roster, and Holden being one of them until a trade happens..... I don't know that Holden will be waived, but maybe

Yeah, gotta see the Russian kid. And really Kampfer isn't a bad spare part.
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Mcphee
Posted 2017-09-19 11:03 AM (#680286 - in reply to #680276)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Kampfer is better served being in Hartford.i don't think there is a legit veteran dman there.The kids need someone to look up to.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-09-19 1:44 PM (#680297 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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I would play Kampfer over Holden
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