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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-07 7:24 PM (#678851 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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1986 ECF G3 vs Montreal...the Willie Huber whiff game.....That whole entire OT was spent in Roy's crease
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Vua
Posted 2017-08-07 7:44 PM (#678852 - in reply to #678850)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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LeetchyMrRanger - 2017-08-07 7:17 PM

Hasek was great, but no Roy, no one is from this generation of goalies post 1980. He won 2 cups all on his own, no goalie has done that, if ever. Hasek didn't do it, Hull made sure of it. He won 2 cups all on his own & 1 as a rookie on a mediocre team. I have never seen a goalie win a cup all on his own, & he did it 2 X. If not for some rookie goalie named Roy, Rangers keep rolling in '86. To me it is Roy, Hasek, Marty, then Hank. You have a game 7 & your choice of a goalie, how do you not go with Roy?


I can't go with Roy because Hasek is in the crease. Until he got to Detroit Hasek had no team. I'm not saying Roy wasn't great, but in their primes I've never seen a goalie I'd play over Hasek.

He is 2nd in career save percentage and his career only started 4 years after Roy. Nobody else in that top group retired before 2013. And I think you may be selling those Montreal teams a little short. They weren't the 2003 Ducks.
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concust
Posted 2017-08-07 7:45 PM (#678853 - in reply to #678848)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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Rranger - 2017-08-07 8:02 PM

concust - 2017-08-07 5:22 PM

Rranger - 2017-08-07 3:42 PM

I will say 2 of your 3 articles are written by one person, you will excuse me if I'm skeptical about somebody, no one has ever heard of, and the third article has no name attached to it. When you come up with consensus opinions from the professional hockey world you may have a point, even though I'm not arguing your point.


Rob Vollman is one of the preeminent hockey statisticians and puts out Hockey Abstract every year, which uses a statistical base to study and analyze hockey. He's basically a math nerd and hockey fan and does great work. Believe he currently works for ESPN. Gabriel Desjardins consults with multiple NHL teams. I'd hardly say "nobody's ever heard of them" rather more accurately, "you've never heard of them."


If two sources isn't enough here's a few more, each uses different methods but all arrive at the same conclusions.

http://hockeyanalytics.com/Research_files/League_Equivalencies.pdf

https://www.puckworlds.com/2012/7/31/3205754/league-equivalencies-an...

https://www.coppernblue.com/2014/7/10/5878177/regarding-nhl-equivale...







So in other words he compiles data and assumes because Erik Christensen scores about the same in the NHL and the SEL they are equal leagues. Is that how it works. Through a bunch of statistical data in a computer and come up with who's best? Because that is a load. What a fun little exercise, with a wonderful inconsequential result, and with what impact to anyone in the hockey world.


It's funny how you think you know more than NHL consultants who have actually done the work, while providing nothing to support your own point.

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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-07 8:39 PM (#678856 - in reply to #678853)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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concust - 2017-08-07 6:45 PM

Rranger - 2017-08-07 8:02 PM

concust - 2017-08-07 5:22 PM

Rranger - 2017-08-07 3:42 PM

I will say 2 of your 3 articles are written by one person, you will excuse me if I'm skeptical about somebody, no one has ever heard of, and the third article has no name attached to it. When you come up with consensus opinions from the professional hockey world you may have a point, even though I'm not arguing your point.


Rob Vollman is one of the preeminent hockey statisticians and puts out Hockey Abstract every year, which uses a statistical base to study and analyze hockey. He's basically a math nerd and hockey fan and does great work. Believe he currently works for ESPN. Gabriel Desjardins consults with multiple NHL teams. I'd hardly say "nobody's ever heard of them" rather more accurately, "you've never heard of them."


If two sources isn't enough here's a few more, each uses different methods but all arrive at the same conclusions.

http://hockeyanalytics.com/Research_files/League_Equivalencies.pdf

https://www.puckworlds.com/2012/7/31/3205754/league-equivalencies-an...

https://www.coppernblue.com/2014/7/10/5878177/regarding-nhl-equivale...







So in other words he compiles data and assumes because Erik Christensen scores about the same in the NHL and the SEL they are equal leagues. Is that how it works. Through a bunch of statistical data in a computer and come up with who's best? Because that is a load. What a fun little exercise, with a wonderful inconsequential result, and with what impact to anyone in the hockey world.


It's funny how you think you know more than NHL consultants who have actually done the work, while providing nothing to support your own point.







No what's funny is you believing everything you read. They compile data and make statistic based assumptions. A smart guy like you should understand a good accountant can make numbers say whatever you want them to. Here is a statistic for you, More NHL players come from Major junior hockey than any other league anywhere including Sweden. Andersson, who's development at this point in time is probably no better than Mitch Marners was when drafted, would benefit like Marner did with another year in Major Junior Hockey after being drafted.
I like Anderson more and more every time I see a blurb on him. But he's still a kid, and as much as playing in the SEL is a feather in his cap he's still playing against players good enough to push him down the lineup. My point since I started this is if he doesn't make the Rangers, he can go back to Sweden and fight to get above third line center And fight for special teams play, or go to Major Junior Hockey and be the big dog. The guy on the ice in every big situation. I watched Bryan Trottier get sent back to Junior Hockey when he was almost to good for junior but not a real good NHL'er yet. He was a unstoppable force, and it didn't hurt him one bit, same as a year in junior for this kid wouldn't hurt his development one bit. And he'd battle all the things pros do on and off the ice and be a better more rounded player for it next year.
I mention Trottier because he reminds me a bit of him. I see what the Rangers see, the kids got a chance to be something special, but if he's not a regular in the top nine he wouldn't hurt his cause in Major Junior for a year, and again IMO only would be a more well rounded player than if he goes to the SEL.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-07 8:54 PM (#678858 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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The Spam folk have entered
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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-07 9:45 PM (#678861 - in reply to #678858)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Mikey Red - 2017-08-07 7:54 PM

The Spam folk have entered




Punt them Mikey.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-07 10:13 PM (#678863 - in reply to #678861)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Rranger - 2017-08-07 9:45 PM

Mikey Red - 2017-08-07 7:54 PM

The Spam folk have entered




Punt them Mikey.

Lol lol Spammers get out!
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-08-08 12:56 AM (#678866 - in reply to #678852)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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Vua - 2017-08-07 9:44 PM

LeetchyMrRanger - 2017-08-07 7:17 PM

Hasek was great, but no Roy, no one is from this generation of goalies post 1980. He won 2 cups all on his own, no goalie has done that, if ever. Hasek didn't do it, Hull made sure of it. He won 2 cups all on his own & 1 as a rookie on a mediocre team. I have never seen a goalie win a cup all on his own, & he did it 2 X. If not for some rookie goalie named Roy, Rangers keep rolling in '86. To me it is Roy, Hasek, Marty, then Hank. You have a game 7 & your choice of a goalie, how do you not go with Roy?


I can't go with Roy because Hasek is in the crease. Until he got to Detroit Hasek had no team. I'm not saying Roy wasn't great, but in their primes I've never seen a goalie I'd play over Hasek.

He is 2nd in career save percentage and his career only started 4 years after Roy. Nobody else in that top group retired before 2013. And I think you may be selling those Montreal teams a little short. They weren't the 2003 Ducks.
Agreed.,.every time I saw Hasek, it amazed me they lost so many games.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-08-08 5:09 AM (#678869 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Why would Andersson go to play in the Canadian juniors instead of the AHL? That is why I am puzzled. Seems to me if he doesn't make the big team, and I also think he will so this discussion will be moot, he would be better off in the AHL where he is close and playing for Ranger coaches. Why play in juniors over the AHL?

I do agree I don't think he should be back in Sweden. No point being all the way over there.

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robstones
Posted 2017-08-08 8:13 AM (#678873 - in reply to #678869)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-08-08 7:09 AM

Why would Andersson go to play in the Canadian juniors instead of the AHL? That is why I am puzzled. Seems to me if he doesn't make the big team, and I also think he will so this discussion will be moot, he would be better off in the AHL where he is close and playing for Ranger coaches. Why play in juniors over the AHL?

I do agree I don't think he should be back in Sweden. No point being all the way over there.



Unless he is too young to play in the AHL... I'm not 100% on the rules, I know they have a rule about being 20 years old, but there's loopholes for European players.... I think Andersson is eligible to play in the AHL, and I agree he has a great chance to make the NHL out of camp...

But if he isn't allowed to be sent to Hartford then he should go to Sweden, and play pro hockey.

He's no amateur junior, he is a professional talent
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Vua
Posted 2017-08-08 9:36 AM (#678877 - in reply to #678873)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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robstones - 2017-08-08 8:13 AM

Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-08-08 7:09 AM

Why would Andersson go to play in the Canadian juniors instead of the AHL? That is why I am puzzled. Seems to me if he doesn't make the big team, and I also think he will so this discussion will be moot, he would be better off in the AHL where he is close and playing for Ranger coaches. Why play in juniors over the AHL?

I do agree I don't think he should be back in Sweden. No point being all the way over there.



Unless he is too young to play in the AHL... I'm not 100% on the rules, I know they have a rule about being 20 years old, but there's loopholes for European players.... I think Andersson is eligible to play in the AHL, and I agree he has a great chance to make the NHL out of camp...

But if he isn't allowed to be sent to Hartford then he should go to Sweden, and play pro hockey.

He's no amateur junior, he is a professional talent


He is allowed to play in the AHL as long as he is 18+ and not contractually obligated to a junior team(he isn't). And technically Canadian juniors isn't considered an amateur league, at least not in the US(they receive a monthly stipend so we consider them paid professionals. Well at least the NCAA does, I don't) That is why you have to choose between college and Canadian junior hockey.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-08 9:39 AM (#678878 - in reply to #678873)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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robstones - 2017-08-08 7:13 AM

Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-08-08 7:09 AM

Why would Andersson go to play in the Canadian juniors instead of the AHL? That is why I am puzzled. Seems to me if he doesn't make the big team, and I also think he will so this discussion will be moot, he would be better off in the AHL where he is close and playing for Ranger coaches. Why play in juniors over the AHL?

I do agree I don't think he should be back in Sweden. No point being all the way over there.



Unless he is too young to play in the AHL... I'm not 100% on the rules, I know they have a rule about being 20 years old, but there's loopholes for European players.... I think Andersson is eligible to play in the AHL, and I agree he has a great chance to make the NHL out of camp...

But if he isn't allowed to be sent to Hartford then he should go to Sweden, and play pro hockey.

He's no amateur junior, he is a professional talent




European players DRAFTED out of the Canadian Hockey League and all other C.H.L. players must be 20 or have already played four years of junior to be able to play in the AHL. Players drafted from other Leagues i.e. Europe are not restricted by this rule. As long as they are 18 years of age, they are eligible to play in the A.H.L. . The C.H.L consists of the W.H.L., the O.H.A., and the Q.M.J.H.L.
Andersson is eligible to play in the AHL. He's a 18 year old kid that might need some more grooming. The Ranger drafted mystique seems to have struck again, where these guys suddenly become to good for in this case, not just junior hockey, but the best junior hockey development league in the world, and its typical of a lot of Ranger fans. The guy is already walking on water. A good comparable is J.T. Miller and his early pro career struggles.
I like reading all the success stories of under 20 hockey players in the AHL. Unfortunately there are very few. If Euro drafted junior age players come over and play its in the C.H.L., because thats where N.H.L. teams want them. Typically they stay at home.
I've said earlier Andersson has to crap the bed not to make the team, they have to big a hole at center. The worst thing that could and its happened with other locks to be on NHL teams, is to be looking for a lower level for him to to play in November. Thats a real tough thing for any prospect to deal with. The Rangers have to be very sure he's there for the whole race, or send him somewhere to develop. And there are obviously differing opinions on where.


Edited by Rranger 2017-08-08 10:25 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-08 10:16 AM (#678879 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Oh No ...the Spammers are here again
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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-08 11:46 AM (#678882 - in reply to #678879)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Mikey Red - 2017-08-08 9:16 AM

Oh No ...the Spammers are here again




You better buy something Mikey. Spend some Yankee $$.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-08 11:54 AM (#678883 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Lol no way...they got my money in the 90's lol
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Av-merican
Posted 2017-08-08 1:29 PM (#678887 - in reply to #678847)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Vua - 2017-08-07 8:00 PM

Quick isn't a top ten goalie in this league even if he had played a full season last year. He may have more talent than any goalie in the league but underachieves almost every year. He had 1 great season, a couple of bad ones, and everything else is average to slightly above average. He also manages to be average while facing the least shots of any starting goalie in the league almost every season.

And Hasek was better than Roy.


I will (begrudgingly) agree with that. Hasek might be the best ever. He certainly had some pretty mediocre teams in front of him, unlike Roy and Brodeur. But putting Brodeur above Roy is nonsense. Brodeur might have better regular season accomplishments but he doesn't come even close to Roy when it comes to postseason performance. Obviously I'm biased but I just don't buy it.

And I agree on Quick--dude is wildly overrated.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-08 1:38 PM (#678888 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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If I was starting a team I'd take any one of the three, and any one of the three would get you to where you want to get.
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-08-08 7:05 PM (#678912 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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This is before all our time, or most here, but hockey experts & historians put Sawshuck (sp?) as the best goalie of all time. To me, again, post 1980 it it is Sir Patrick, The Dominator, Marty, Hank. Then, it is every one (Belfour, Potvin, Beezer, Quick, Renney, Fleury, Hextall, Vernon, Richter, Smith, Fuer, etc...). Sadly, for Hank unless he wins a cup he will not be mentioned with thos 3, a HofFmer to be for sure, but still he won't be mentioned with those 3.

Edited by LeetchyMrRanger 2017-08-08 7:08 PM
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-08-08 7:11 PM (#678914 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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I only saw Sawchuck at the end of his career with the Rangers...Best pre-80s goalie for me was Plante.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-08-09 10:10 AM (#678933 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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and where does Dryden fit in? Granted, his career was shorter than some of the others but I thought he was pretty damn good
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-08-09 10:18 AM (#678934 - in reply to #678933)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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Dryden did pop into my mind...Dryden's height gave him a distinctive edge (much like John Davidson) so I subject a brownie point or two from the talent column.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-09 10:32 AM (#678936 - in reply to #678933)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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sureshore - 2017-08-09 9:10 AM

and where does Dryden fit in? Granted, his career was shorter than some of the others but I thought he was pretty damn good





He was playing behind one of the best teams ever and probably the best set of defensemen ever for most of his career. I look at his success with a bit of skepticism.
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-08-09 12:39 PM (#678942 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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I agree, he did go down as 1 of the all-time greats, but that team was not just an all-star team, it was a HofF team. It is easily 1 of the best teams in the history of hockey.
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robstones
Posted 2017-08-09 2:21 PM (#678949 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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In case you missed the WJSS here's Lias' highlights






The kid is good. It will be interesting to see what he can do in camp with NHL talent as linemates.... Grabner.... put him as the 3rd line C with Miller and or Vesey or Buchnevich for a preseason game?

The more I see the more I like, that's all I know
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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-10 10:20 AM (#679016 - in reply to #678949)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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robstones - 2017-08-09 1:21 PM

In case you missed the WJSS here's Lias' highlights






The kid is good. It will be interesting to see what he can do in camp with NHL talent as linemates.... Grabner.... put him as the 3rd line C with Miller and or Vesey or Buchnevich for a preseason game?

The more I see the more I like, that's all I know



I agree Rob, there appears to be a lot to like about this guy including his looking physically prepared for the NHL. I just hope the Rangers do whats best for him and his confidence.. Anthony Duclair started out with a blaze of glory and looked like a sure fire NHl'er. Jumping the gun didn't work out so well for him. Confidence is a huge part of these kids game. You lose it and its a real tough road back.
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robstones
Posted 2017-08-10 3:38 PM (#679025 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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Well apparently losing confidence isn't something Lias does....

They ask him after he was drafted to describe himself, and he goes, "I'm a winner" hahaha
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-10 3:41 PM (#679026 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Did he steal that from the Beck song "Loser" ?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-10 3:43 PM (#679027 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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https://youtu.be/YgSPaXgAdzE?t=169
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concust
Posted 2017-08-11 6:42 AM (#679071 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed



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Being physically prepared for the NHL is actually the part of Andersson's game that I'm most concerned about. Remember, those highlights are against juniors, and the SHL is not a very physical league.

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Rranger
Posted 2017-08-11 6:05 PM (#679112 - in reply to #677965)
Subject: Re: Andersson signed


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Physically prepared means he has the physical size to compete and battle in the NHL. He doesn't have a question mark over his head like Buchnevich and his beanpole frame had. It doesn't mean success, it just means size is not a excuse. He has it to do like any other rookie.
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