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Top 50 Russian Players:
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-07-19 12:06 PM (#678175)
Subject: Top 50 Russian Players:


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http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/who-are-the-top-50-russia...
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NTHockey
Posted 2017-07-19 12:59 PM (#678178 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:



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Had to laugh at this one:
"12. Alexei Kovalev (NY Rangers, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Ottawa, Florida): No Russian player has played as many NHL games as Kovalev, who was the first Russian player drafted in the first round. He was loved by fans pretty well everywhere he played."
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-07-19 5:56 PM (#678188 - in reply to #678178)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:



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When I read it I thought, what about all the Russian greats that never played in the NHL. This is a more interesting list.

https://www.si.com/olympic-ice-hockey/photos/2014/02/12/greatest-rus...

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concust
Posted 2017-07-20 6:53 AM (#678199 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:



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This list is laughable.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-07-20 11:34 AM (#678202 - in reply to #678199)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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concust - 2017-07-20 8:53 AM

This list is laughable.


what's laughable? It's players who had NHL careers and ONLY BASED on that. So a player that came at the end of a career - all his international experience is not included. I may have some movement in the top 3, but overall I don't have any big issues with it
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sureshore
Posted 2017-07-20 11:36 AM (#678203 - in reply to #678188)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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Steady Eddie - 2017-07-19 7:56 PM

When I read it I thought, what about all the Russian greats that never played in the NHL. This is a more interesting list.

https://www.si.com/olympic-ice-hockey/photos/2014/02/12/greatest-rus...



sure that's closer to the top Russians but the disclaimer on the original list posted was exactly that it was only based on those who were NHL players and the NHL accomplishments only
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-20 9:24 PM (#678208 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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Illya Bryzgalov should be 1st...he is hysterical
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concust
Posted 2017-07-21 6:14 AM (#678212 - in reply to #678202)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:



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sureshore - 2017-07-20 12:34 PM

concust - 2017-07-20 8:53 AM

This list is laughable.


what's laughable? It's players who had NHL careers and ONLY BASED on that. So a player that came at the end of a career - all his international experience is not included. I may have some movement in the top 3, but overall I don't have any big issues with it


I'm not even debating the "who should be #1 vs #2 vs #3" debates. Just look at some of the names on there, and his own justifications:


21. Alexei Zhitnik (Los Angeles, Buffalo, NY Islanders, Atlanta): Born in Ukraine, Zhitnik represented the Soviet Union and Russia during his career. Scored 30 points in eight of his first 10 NHL seasons and was tough.


So he's a Ukrainian, he technically shouldn't even be eligible. But he's #21. By that logic of "he represented the Soviets and Russia during his career", Sandis Ozolinsh should be on this list. He represented the Soviet Union at the WJC in 1991, and the following year for Russia. He has 564 points in 875 games in the NHL, as a defenseman. By Campbell's own criteria he should be included. He's not, but this guy is:


26. Viktor Kozlov (San Jose, Florida, NY Islanders, Washington): Broke the 20-goal barrier only twice, but scored 50-plus points three times. Never came close to that level of production in the playoffs, though.


A forward three-time 50 point scorer is #26 on your list? Wow.



41. Alexander Frolov


Come on.

He has no idea what he's doing. Ken Campbell is a well documented hack who writes uninformed, poorly researched clickbait like this. There are lists where people are entitled to their opinion and it brings up some healthy debate back and forth but to put this garbage out is an embarrassment.





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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-21 9:12 AM (#678215 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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Ruslan Fedotenko Honorable mention being a you crane
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sureshore
Posted 2017-07-21 12:56 PM (#678216 - in reply to #678212)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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concust - 2017-07-21 8:14 AM


Come on.

He has no idea what he's doing. Ken Campbell is a well documented hack who writes uninformed, poorly researched clickbait like this. There are lists where people are entitled to their opinion and it brings up some healthy debate back and forth but to put this garbage out is an embarrassment.







Ah but doesn't the article (Campbell's) say this list was captured from a Russian magazine? No argument on Campbell being a hack and they do seem to be his comments but from what I could gather the list is from a Russian source (so they must consider Ukranians their own)

Edited by sureshore 2017-07-21 12:57 PM
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NTHockey
Posted 2017-07-21 2:10 PM (#678217 - in reply to #678215)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-21 11:12 AM

Ruslan Fedotenko Honorable mention being a you crane


Now THAT would be an interesting list - non-Russians who played for Russia teams. 1. Darius Kasparitus
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ej17
Posted 2017-07-21 2:25 PM (#678218 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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Gretzky is part Russian
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-07-21 3:47 PM (#678219 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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There you go, grandparents from Ukraine, correct. But, they say that guy Kharlamon is or would be the Gretzky of Russian hockey. Every one that has seen him play says he played on another level.

"In the opener of the 1972 Summit Series, Team Canada was blindsided by the magical skills of Kharlamov, who scored two goals in the Soviet Union’s 7-3 victory and was named the game’s No. 1 star. The Canadians feared him so badly that Flyers center Bobby Clarke – captain of the Broad Street Bullies -- broke Kharlamov’s ankle in Game 6 with a deliberate slash that changed the momentum of the series. Kharlamov played on eight world championship teams before he lost his life in a car accident at age 33. Today the world’s best Russian player receives the Kharlamov Cup"

- That broad street bully tactic of course from that toothless Clarke was a game changer. You wonder & it would be interesting to see if it never took place who wins that series with him in the lineup. Clarke said he regrets doing that at that time. We know Clarke & the rest of his bullies of the 70s very well, cheap bastards that they were all those decades, & even still. Still so happy they have NOT won since to date & here is hoping they never will, the Flygirls Philly Cheesestakes.

Edited by LeetchyMrRanger 2017-07-21 3:54 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-21 4:00 PM (#678220 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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How about the top 50 Russians who dogged it and didnt live up to their true potential....Start with Alex Kovalev
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-07-21 4:31 PM (#678222 - in reply to #678219)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:



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LeetchyMrRanger - 2017-07-21 5:47 PM

There you go, grandparents from Ukraine, correct. But, they say that guy Kharlamon is or would be the Gretzky of Russian hockey. Every one that has seen him play says he played on another level.

"In the opener of the 1972 Summit Series, Team Canada was blindsided by the magical skills of Kharlamov, who scored two goals in the Soviet Union’s 7-3 victory and was named the game’s No. 1 star. The Canadians feared him so badly that Flyers center Bobby Clarke – captain of the Broad Street Bullies -- broke Kharlamov’s ankle in Game 6 with a deliberate slash that changed the momentum of the series. Kharlamov played on eight world championship teams before he lost his life in a car accident at age 33. Today the world’s best Russian player receives the Kharlamov Cup"

- That broad street bully tactic of course from that toothless Clarke was a game changer. You wonder & it would be interesting to see if it never took place who wins that series with him in the lineup. Clarke said he regrets doing that at that time. We know Clarke & the rest of his bullies of the 70s very well, cheap bastards that they were all those decades, & even still. Still so happy they have NOT won since to date & here is hoping they never will, the Flygirls Philly Cheesestakes.


As far as the '72 series, it wasn't just Clarke. The Canadian brand of hockey was just so much more physical. The way the Russians came out was a real eye opener. At the time, I rooted for Canada. In hindsight, I wish the Russians would have won. In might vs right, it would have been nice to see right win. Especially in 1974.


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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-07-21 7:32 PM (#678223 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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One could argue they don't win the cup w/o Kovalev. He did have a solid career, but with that talent should have been better.

You know it always comes back to the Russians. I can give you a ton of Canadians that dogged it, didn't live up to expectations, took games off, etc...

That play by toothless cheap shot artist, & the Russians not being ready for the physical play, & Espo was just too much to overcome. Agreed.

Edited by LeetchyMrRanger 2017-07-21 7:34 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-21 7:59 PM (#678224 - in reply to #678175)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:


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Yep Leetchy...He got us on the board in G6 vs the Debbies after Richter kept it from being 5-0...But Kovalev was loaded with talent and he didnt live up to it
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concust
Posted 2017-07-22 7:13 AM (#678225 - in reply to #678216)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Russian Players:



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sureshore - 2017-07-21 1:56 PM

concust - 2017-07-21 8:14 AM


Come on.

He has no idea what he's doing. Ken Campbell is a well documented hack who writes uninformed, poorly researched clickbait like this. There are lists where people are entitled to their opinion and it brings up some healthy debate back and forth but to put this garbage out is an embarrassment.







Ah but doesn't the article (Campbell's) say this list was captured from a Russian magazine? No argument on Campbell being a hack and they do seem to be his comments but from what I could gather the list is from a Russian source (so they must consider Ukranians their own)


The list, whoever the original authorship is, is objectively a joke. If it did not contradict its own criteria for inclusion, then sure, we could argue relative rankings/inclusion/exclusion like we do for other lists. But as I pointed out, the list itself is a joke.

Campbell is also, separately, a hack, and by basically republishing content and "adding his own comments" only proves this point further.

I don't know if Russians consider Ukrainians, or Latvians, or Belarus or the other eastern bloc countries as "their own." If they do they're wrong. Russia is the the same thing as the Soviet Union. That's like putting together a list of the best players from California and including Minnesotans because they're both in the United States. You're either doing a russia-list, or a soviets/CIS list - can't have it both ways.

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