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OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-07-25 5:13 PM (#678473 - in reply to #678465)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Vua - 2017-07-25 3:31 PM

On a bridge deal he would have gotten 4.7 or so. When you buy out UFA years you pay a bit more. The Rangers seem to be getting away from giving every RFA a bridge deal and getting more long term cost security. It's not a bad approach in general, but I think I would rather have seen Zib on a 1 year prove it deal.


I think he was on the verge of proving his worth last season before he broke his leg. When he came back he seemed to struggle a bit, which I would guess is understandable.

He is bigger and faster than stepan with more offensive upside. He has scored over 20 goals a season twice, just like stepan. He also costs 1.2 less a year than stepan...
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robstones
Posted 2017-07-25 6:45 PM (#678474 - in reply to #678472)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Rranger - 2017-07-25 7:07 PM

A deal like this you hope is a bargain for the last three years. If he signed a one year deal and lit it up then it would be more money so staying away from bridge deals is not a bad approach. Its all about knowing your players capabilities and future contribution. Time will tell on a guy who has to score to be effective.


Bingo.

They could have bridged him for a million or so less, but what happens when he scores 25-30 goals and another 30-40 assists? What happens when he shows that he's at least better than Stepan, so he starts comparing himself to Stepan?

If Grabner can score 30, so can Zibanejad. Will it happen? It's definitely a hope scenario, sure.

They're rolling the dice a little bit, but Zibanejad could produce like a $7million dollar player.

I don't think that's an overly optimistic thing to say. He played really well, btoke his leg, took time to heal and get his head right about it. Then was one of our best players in the playoffs.

That's a good gamble
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-07-25 7:09 PM (#678475 - in reply to #678474)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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robstones - 2017-07-25 6:45 PM

Rranger - 2017-07-25 7:07 PM

A deal like this you hope is a bargain for the last three years. If he signed a one year deal and lit it up then it would be more money so staying away from bridge deals is not a bad approach. Its all about knowing your players capabilities and future contribution. Time will tell on a guy who has to score to be effective.


Bingo.

They could have bridged him for a million or so less, but what happens when he scores 25-30 goals and another 30-40 assists? What happens when he shows that he's at least better than Stepan, so he starts comparing himself to Stepan?

If Grabner can score 30, so can Zibanejad. Will it happen? It's definitely a hope scenario, sure.

They're rolling the dice a little bit, but Zibanejad could produce like a $7million dollar player.

I don't think that's an overly optimistic thing to say. He played really well, btoke his leg, took time to heal and get his head right about it. Then was one of our best players in the playoffs.

That's a good gamble


DOUBLE BINGO!!

EVERY SINGLE DAY
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-25 7:18 PM (#678476 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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he he he
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Mcphee
Posted 2017-07-25 7:26 PM (#678477 - in reply to #678476)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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The way I see it is that he pretty much is Stepans equal right now,and if he doesn't progress at all,then we are paying 1.15 million less for the same production.I do see Zibanejad having the opportunity to improve his game,while Stepan is probably as good as he will get now.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-25 8:35 PM (#678478 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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If he is only Stepans equal...bite your tongue Mr. McPhee! then we will see that Zib is slow and loses every face off...but AV will have him Staal and Holden out there in the last minute

EVERY SINGLE GAME
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x10003q
Posted 2017-07-26 7:53 AM (#678484 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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This is a good gamble. Zib also has a shooting mentality vs a pass the puck into the net mentality.
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robstones
Posted 2017-07-26 8:04 AM (#678485 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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I think he's proven to be at least Stepan's equal production wise.

He's clearly bigger, faster, and better ar faceoffs, though...

That alone makes him worth the contract he got.... but there's room for growth still!

He broke his leg which cost him 25 games... Otherwise there would be no question marks as to how he gets this deal.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2017-07-26 9:22 AM (#678486 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Good player. Overpaid but he has a chance to be more valuable than what he signed for. There has to be a team that will take Staal at half retained. He's still decent. Just not at that money.
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concust
Posted 2017-07-28 7:46 AM (#678524 - in reply to #678465)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Vua - 2017-07-25 4:31 PM

On a bridge deal he would have gotten 4.7 or so. When you buy out UFA years you pay a bit more. The Rangers seem to be getting away from giving every RFA a bridge deal and getting more long term cost security. It's not a bad approach in general, but I think I would rather have seen Zib on a 1 year prove it deal.


Rangers have been screwed on bridge deals in the past. They didn't "need" to bridge this one - that is, they had the luxury of signing for longer term and not going the bridge route. It's a gamble that while the player may be overpaid initially, they will progress and provide much more value at the end of the deal. Previously the "bridge" route screwed the Rangers a bit, but it was due to 1) cap inflexibility when they had to sign the deal 2) the bridged player proved their worth and cost them more longer-term. This is the primary reason I'm against bridge deals unless absolutely necessary - you put yourself in a lose-lose situation. If the player sucks during the bridge deal, then you saved a little money but your player sucks and your personnel evaluation was inaccurate. If they play well it ends up costing you money in the long run.

I think the Rangers made the right decision here, a one year prove-it contract has the potential to cost them much more money in the long run, or, if he can't prove it, you have an RFA that's been devalued and yet still needs another contract. I'll also say that if Gorton and staff knew they wanted Zbad longer term, and they knew they were going to deal Stepan, they should have negotiated and signed an extension before a Stepan trade. The trade gave Zbad a lot more leverage in negotiations.

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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-28 3:44 PM (#678533 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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I don't disagree about the leverage part, but truthfully I don't think it mattered much. We bought out 3 UFA years, and that was never going to be less than 5 mill or so. Like I mentioned earlier, maybe 200-300 K too much, but certainly no more than that. Deal is fair and in the right ball park for 5-years with 3 bought out UFA years.

I'll take Ziban at 5.35 over Stepan at 6.5 for sure. And I rather have 24 year old Ziban than Brass at 5 per as well.



Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-28 3:45 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-28 4:26 PM (#678534 - in reply to #678533)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-28 3:44 PM

I don't disagree about the leverage part, but truthfully I don't think it mattered much. We bought out 3 UFA years, and that was never going to be less than 5 mill or so. Like I mentioned earlier, maybe 200-300 K too much, but certainly no more than that. Deal is fair and in the right ball park for 5-years with 3 bought out UFA years.

I'll take Ziban at 5.35 over Stepan at 6.5 for sure. And I rather have 24 year old Ziban than Brass at 5 per as well.


You must ask yourself this question tho...Why did Ottawa give up on him?
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-28 5:24 PM (#678535 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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I think they wanted cost certainty with Brass and Brass is from there and maybe that team was looking for some more vet leadership. You can ask a question like that any times trades are made. Sometimes both teams can win in a deal. Why did we give Brass up? Goes both ways. Doesn't have to be bad, could just be looking for a little different mix. They also wanted a L shot and we wanted a R shot as well.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-28 7:46 PM (#678537 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Yeah perhaps ...but Zib was #6 pick overall...quick trigger by Ottawa ?
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-29 5:30 AM (#678539 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Could be...could come back to bite them in the butt. Who knows, guess we'll find out. Not too concerned about that, or going to use it as some statement on Ziban either way. Teams trade players for all sorts of reasons, so we'll see how Ziban progresses.

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Rranger
Posted 2017-07-29 12:06 PM (#678540 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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The reality of the NHL is there are only so many of the different classes of players to go around. And the Rangers dont have a number one centre. Zibanejad was hit and miss last year which wasn't helped by his injury. That was a nasty break. My humble opinion is he had a great training camp had his blistering line broke up to start the season by a bonehead coach, and was so-so til he was hurt. Understandably slow to recover but a pretty good playoffs.
All in all has a ways to go to be anointed a number 1 centre, if he ever does. It's no guarantee. He will never be a power centre physically, in fact he's almost a mirror image of Stepan's approach, which is not physical at all.
Personally I don't see him stacking up very good against the better centres head to head, but I guess we will see this year. He's another of the getting to be a few that will be expected to move up a rung on the lineup, and at some point in time the results won't be there.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-29 12:28 PM (#678541 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Yep R...Zib is not a number 1 center...He is def in the soft category
Zib
Hayes
Deshar
Lias

Mismatch...not in our favor
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-29 12:31 PM (#678542 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Gorton has work to do...not much cap available...move Nash or Kreider
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-29 12:35 PM (#678543 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Or maybe the results will be there. Most likely some will fail and some will succeed in larger roles. Usually how it plays out.

My overall take is we took big strides forward to help repair our biggest weakness by far the past couple of seasons, the D. That had to be done, and honestly I believe is tougher than adding solid players upfront. With that done I think Gorton will have his eyes open for a top 9 player to really complete the forward group. You can get guys like that during the season. And you can get guys like that much easier than top 4 dmen as well. So to me we are in a much better spot in late July than the past two seasons.

I think our D is a top 5/6 or so unit overall. And we have guys with potential upfront as well. Clearly all won't hit, but some will, and if they do then I believe we'll be in a good spot to be solid and add any needed reinforcements upfront during the season.

Looking forward to seeing how it plays out. And if Vesey and Buch take the hopefully expected steps forward we should be darn good on the wing (Kreider, Zucc and Nash also in that mix). Then we'll see what they do with Miller and how Hayes and Ziban play.

Should be a fun watch to see how things shake out this season. I would say the Pens, BJ's and TB are ahead of us right now. After that we are as good as any team in the East, and I don't think we are miles behind the 3 I mentioned either...such is life in the NHL in 2017.

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robstones
Posted 2017-07-29 2:38 PM (#678548 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Shattenkirk should help the PP, too. It will be interesting to see the impact he truely has on this team.
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concust
Posted 2017-07-30 7:17 AM (#678553 - in reply to #678541)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-29 1:28 PM

Yep R...Zib is not a number 1 center...He is def in the soft category
Zib
Hayes
Deshar
Lias

Mismatch...not in our favor


This is by far the biggest weakness of the team as it stands.

Even adding Bozak to the mix doesn't help much. Hoping the Avs lose a bunch of games at first (pretty likely) and Sakic blinks on Duchene before Thanksgiving. He's not a perfect answer but would add a lot. Duchene-Zbad-Hayes as your 1-2-3 is lightyears ahead of Bozak-Zbad-Hayes.

I don't see a lot of other options in play but I'm not the one working the phones. Hoping we can get some more talent/depth at center by Xmas trade deadline.

Or maybe Zbad breaks out this year and we don't have to... or Hayes becomes a power center.... not betting on either though.


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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-30 7:36 AM (#678556 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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So I would ask...why is a Bozak type player (not saying him exactly) not going to help much. For the most part Bozak is Stepan. Better at face-offs. Maybe a little less responsible in his own zone. Both score in the 50's. Seem very similar to me. A player of that ilk down the middle is what we need. Then we'd have essentially the same forwards as last season AND a MUCH better D. That was a team that was terrible coaching in the Ottawa series away from an ECF.

So I don't agree that a player on the Stepan/Bozak level doesn't help much.

Now if we are talking bigger and saying yeah but how much would a top level C help us, that's a different conversation. Aside from the how do we get that player here and how do we afford that player questions, I don't see many of those guys available to add. That's why I have made my peace with the fact that how we win, and have won a lot of playoff series for many years now, is with depth and balance of very good players upfront and on D, and then Hank in goal.

If we can add that true # 1 C, yeah that would be great, but I don't see that guy right now. And I still fully believe Tavares is not leaving the Isles with a huge F you and signing across town with their biggest rival. Explore for sure like I said, but that is a very longshot option I think.

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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-30 7:45 AM (#678557 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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I'm sure the longer nothing gets done the more the price drops, but you will give up a lot for Duchene. I like to think this past seasons struggles were misleading based on many factors. Generally he has been an upper 50's point guy though. He had 2 seasons of 67 and 70 points, but outside of that has been maxed at 55-59 points. He is a real good player, and yes a level up from Stepan/Bozak, but I don't know if he is n the stud level.

I do have a feeling he would see a boost getting out of Colorado, but at what price? Skjei? Is Day a starter? Kreider or Miller you'd have to think would be included (especially if you say no Skjei). Plus we'd have to fit him in under the cap. A lot of questions/issues with a Duchene trade that would need to be answered. When he is eventually dealt, to us or someone else, I will be interested to see what the return ends up being.

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concust
Posted 2017-07-31 8:07 AM (#678571 - in reply to #678556)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-30 8:36 AM

So I would ask...why is a Bozak type player (not saying him exactly) not going to help much. For the most part Bozak is Stepan.


This is the crux of where we disagree. Bozak is a slight setback offensively, (has only scored 50+ points once, Stepan has scored 50+ every year since his rookie year. Yes I am counting the lockout year which was 44 pts in 48 gms) but he's a significant step back defensively.

His shot suppression numbers are average at best, even for a second line center. Stepan is a legitimate 20-31 first line center by any metric, (and higher by some) Bozak is an average second-line center over the course of his career. (Taking into account production plus defense plus usage) He had a good year last year. I'm not saying he wouldn't help but he certainly isn't the answer. To me he provides depth more than an upgrade in the position.

He'll probably win you an extra 7 faceoffs over a 5 game span though.
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robstones
Posted 2017-07-31 9:26 AM (#678573 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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We can't forget the offense that Shattenkirk adds. You don't need to do better than Stepan.

Zibanejad will be a better top line center than Stepan. He just got the contract, and will be heavily leaned on... the pressure is on him

Hayes needs to try and be a 2nd line center, if we got a guy like Bozak it would put more pressure on Hayes to earn that spot rather than it just be handed to him.

If we can't get a solid center, Miller can play the position.... but in that case we should try to land a scoring winger.

I'd even take Jagr
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 9:48 AM (#678575 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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I would agree that Stepan is a little better than Bozak, but I do not agree that the difference is very large. And I'd expect Ziban and Hayes to improve, so overall our C's will be in the same ballpark if we added Bozak in for Stepan. I don't see this big down turn in that exchange.

So that is where we respectfully disagree concust. All good.

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concust
Posted 2017-07-31 1:10 PM (#678580 - in reply to #678575)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-31 10:48 AM

I would agree that Stepan is a little better than Bozak, but I do not agree that the difference is very large. And I'd expect Ziban and Hayes to improve, so overall our C's will be in the same ballpark if we added Bozak in for Stepan. I don't see this big down turn in that exchange.

So that is where we respectfully disagree concust. All good.



Sure, maybe Hayes and Zbad step up a bit, maybe Bozak can match his career year last year... past a certain point you can't rely on maybes. Either they can do it or they can't and I look at past performance as the best indicator of that.

I have no problem with adding Bozak at a reasonable price. I really doubt that Toronto is going to let him go for Holden and a pick though. In the end we need center depth and Bozak would help that. I just don't think he makes the team appreciably better. My point is just that Zbad, Hayes, Bozak are all 2/3 line centers. If you add another 2C that doesn't raise the ceiling, that only makes your 3/4 line center better by pushing others down the depth chart. At that point you're not relying on Nieves or hoping that Andersson is ready - you can just plug in Desharnais in there.

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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 1:53 PM (#678581 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Greatly improved D, scorer like Shatt on D, some improvement from Ziban and Hayes. Add that all up and I'd be perfectly fine if we added a slightly lesser version of Stepan.

We made ECF's and SCF's with the group we had, so adding a little lesser Stepan on top of the improved D I think we'd be fine.



Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-31 1:54 PM
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Mcphee
Posted 2017-07-31 3:58 PM (#678583 - in reply to #678581)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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People conveniently forget an older goalie that sure as hell seems like he is on the decline.And if last year was the true start of his decline,how much worse will he get this year.Add in a backup that more than likely wont be better(probably a little worse) than the last 2 backups here.Pavelec has been a starter and will have Allaire to work with to try and teach,but will he be open to learning new things from Allaire.The older players get the less likely they are to open up to new teaching.Not every player but the majority certainly.I'm also not feeling very good about Hayes picking it up this year,I don't expect much different than last year from him.Desharnais has been on the decline for the last few years too,and I'm not convinced he's really an answer at center,maybe an answer by default.Vesey,Buch,and Skjei are the young players that should show improvement this year.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 4:21 PM (#678586 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Look, there is no doubt we need Hank to be very good. I don't think we need stud top 3 goalie Hank, but we need very good Hank. If he is just okay or below average...yes we are f'd. Not much more needs to be said.

Hayes I think will be what he is. I don't expect this huge growth. And Deshar should be a 4th line C for us when all is said and done this season, so no big issue to me.

The young kids you mentioned need to take strides, as do Ziban and Miller and maybe even a little more from Kreider being more consistent.

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concust
Posted 2017-08-02 8:55 AM (#678620 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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As for Lundqvist's "decline" i would refer you to the defensemen who played in front of him:



- Holden, Girardi, Staal, Klein, are 4 of your top 6 in minutes per GP. The other two are McDonagh and Smith, who played only 18 games here.

- Projecting that a step further, I would say those 4 should be considered bottom pair defenders on a playoff team. So we basically had a #1 defenseman, a #2 in Smith for 18 games (kind of a stretch already) and then 4 defensemen who are ideally bottom pair guys.

-Girardi was the consistent partner for McDonagh, and saddled the effectiveness of 27 even further.

-Skjei played great but his utilization was the lowest among regular defensemen

-Clendo, Kampfer, and McIlrath are all fringe NHLers, didn't really play enough GP to have a significant impact one way or another.


Next year with a defense of McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith, Skjei as your top 4 (and playing legit top 4 minutes); Staal as a bottom pair guy where he belongs, and then Holden/Bereglazov/Pionk/Graves as the 6/7, we should see a significant improvement in both defense and goaltending, which are linked so closely that they can't really be separated. It's no surprise that some of Hank's best years came as a result of a defense-first system that blocked shots and kept defenders to the outside, or that Brodeur had 100 shutouts a year because he faced 16 shots a game in the prime of the neutral zone trap.

As Hank gets older, a decline is inevitable - I am not arguing this point - but realize the team last year had its worst defensive corps in probably over a decade, and succeeded in large part because of the offensive explosion of the first couple of months. As someone else recently said, Hank doesn't need to be elite but he does need to be good.
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Mcphee
Posted 2017-08-02 9:17 AM (#678622 - in reply to #678408)
Subject: RE: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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I'm not here to kill Lundqvist tbut he is on the decline.Sorry but his age does that.I see better defenseman in front of him this year,but you have a coach that has an offense first mentality which wont help Lundqvist.Part of his decline is his own damn fault too,he is unwilling to play fewer games and bit**es id he isn't used almost every game.Part of that falls on Chewbacca,he's the coach and has to lay down the law about playing time,but we know how he is with veterans.If Allaire can't work wonders with Pavelec this year and Lundqvist is forced to play 60+ games again,he will probably be very tired come playoff time.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-08-02 10:00 AM (#678623 - in reply to #678622)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Even in those d-first-shot blocking seasons, the one constant about the Rangers defense was their inability to keep players from camping in front of the crease and/or crashing the net (sometimes even crashing Henrik).

Maybe I'm missing something, but as far as I can see, they still have not addressed the issue.
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concust
Posted 2017-08-02 10:01 AM (#678624 - in reply to #678622)
Subject: RE: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per



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Mcphee - 2017-08-02 10:17 AM

If Allaire can't work wonders with Pavelec this year and Lundqvist is forced to play 60+ games again,he will probably be very tired come playoff time.


Where does this come from? All evidence shows that the more Lundqvist plays the better he is. Last year in the playoffs, he improved his numbers in the playoffs vs the regular season. This has been the case in every playoff in recent memory aside from the 5 games vs the Penguins 2 years ago. His numbers get better in the postseason, and yet somehow the narrative becomes "he's not a playoff performer".

So this "tired come playoff time" idea is completely unsupported unless you have some evidence to the contrary?

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Mcphee
Posted 2017-08-02 10:50 AM (#678625 - in reply to #678623)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: Rangers sign Zibanejad, 5 years $5.35m per


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Mjolnir - 2017-08-02 12:00 PM

Even in those d-first-shot blocking seasons, the one constant about the Rangers defense was their inability to keep players from camping in front of the crease and/or crashing the net (sometimes even crashing Henrik).

Maybe I'm missing something, but as far as I can see, they still have not addressed the issue.

I want that too,but there is no way in hell you are getting that type of defenseman on this team with this coach.certainly not a young player.Maybe if there is a veteran out there it would have a slight chance of happening.
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