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TRADE: Rangers acquire Peter Holland for Adam Cracknell
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 10:15 AM (#684863)
Subject: TRADE: Rangers acquire Peter Holland for Adam Cracknell



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So much for the Adam Cracknell experiment.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-24 10:24 AM (#684865 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Great Job Jeff!
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Blue404
Posted 2017-10-24 10:25 AM (#684866 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Close and lock the door!
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-24 10:27 AM (#684867 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Dolan, Sather, Gorton, AV, Ruff and Arneil need to go
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Blue404
Posted 2017-10-24 11:04 AM (#684869 - in reply to #684867)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Mikey Red - 2017-10-24 12:27 PM

Dolan, Sather, Gorton, AV, Ruff and Arneil need to go
We need Scotty Bowman ?
There are no replacement on the horizon Mike.Messier?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-24 11:06 AM (#684870 - in reply to #684869)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Blue404 - 2017-10-24 11:04 AM

Mikey Red - 2017-10-24 12:27 PM

Dolan, Sather, Gorton, AV, Ruff and Arneil need to go
We need Scotty Bowman ?
There are no replacement on the horizon Mike.Messier?

Haha Fubo Chavez for all I care
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-24 11:07 AM (#684871 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Is Lester Patrick available?
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-24 11:07 AM (#684872 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Brilliant bring a guy in play him minimal dump him and A) bring someone up that you chose Cracknell over to begin with, or B) bring in another pickup double mint can decide he doesn’t like after 2 minutes.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 11:37 AM (#684874 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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A little tarnish on THE BRASS?

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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-24 11:49 AM (#684875 - in reply to #684874)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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concust - 2017-10-24 10:37 AM


A little tarnish on THE BRASS?






A little tarnish on the entire group especially the coach. Not sure what bringing a guy in and not giving him a chance accomplishes.
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Blue404
Posted 2017-10-24 11:56 AM (#684876 - in reply to #684870)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Mikey Red - 2017-10-24 1:06 PM

Blue404 - 2017-10-24 11:04 AM

Mikey Red - 2017-10-24 12:27 PM

Dolan, Sather, Gorton, AV, Ruff and Arneil need to go
We need Scotty Bowman ?
There are no replacement on the horizon Mike.Messier?

Haha Fubo Chavez for all I care
He is great,funny.
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Mandar
Posted 2017-10-24 12:21 PM (#684878 - in reply to #684875)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Rranger - 2017-10-24 1:49 PM

concust - 2017-10-24 10:37 AM


A little tarnish on THE BRASS?




A little tarnish on the entire group especially the coach. Not sure what bringing a guy in and not giving him a chance accomplishes.


Now, I know we are all frustrated with this team from the bottom up. But tarnish the brass due to the Cracknell experiment? You guys are giving too much heed to a situation that is extremely minor.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-24 12:31 PM (#684879 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Its not a bad waive...We are still at 11 NHL forwards
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mpcelo45
Posted 2017-10-24 1:04 PM (#684881 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Its not a bad waive, but it is a waive that never should have happened to begin with. The Rangers are grasping at straws at this point.

It really is time to remove AV from the formula the players are not responding and he seems to not know what players he should play.

I am tired of this.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 1:06 PM (#684882 - in reply to #684878)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Mandar - 2017-10-24 1:21 PM

Rranger - 2017-10-24 1:49 PM

concust - 2017-10-24 10:37 AM


A little tarnish on THE BRASS?




A little tarnish on the entire group especially the coach. Not sure what bringing a guy in and not giving him a chance accomplishes.


Now, I know we are all frustrated with this team from the bottom up. But tarnish the brass due to the Cracknell experiment? You guys are giving too much heed to a situation that is extremely minor.


The Cracknell experiment on the surface, is the least of their worries. Claim a guy off waivers, waive him 5 games later. My main issues are that they tried this instead of solving real issues, and to Rranger's point, trying it without committing to it. I knew it would come to this, I just had no idea it would come this soon.

The fact that they tried this, and now are un-trying it, signals huge problems to me in the organization -

1) a failure in larger strategy (fixing center depth, as opposed to bringing in a 32 year old journeyman winger),
2) a failure in pro scouting (not recognizing Cracknell's limited ability),
3) a failure in communication with the farm (assuming a kid is called up, why was this not done sooner? Did the kid develop into being ready for the NHL in the past week?)
4) a failure in communication between upper management and coaching

Still don't know why they didn't just call up Nieves or Lettierri a week ago, and why exactly we had to go through all this.

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sureshore
Posted 2017-10-24 1:13 PM (#684883 - in reply to #684872)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Rranger - 2017-10-24 1:07 PM

Brilliant bring a guy in play him minimal dump him and A) bring someone up that you chose Cracknell over to begin with, or B) bring in another pickup double mint can decide he doesn’t like after 2 minutes.


at what point do they realize where/who the problem is? The guy who dresses 7 defensemen in almost half of the games so far?
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PV29
Posted 2017-10-24 1:27 PM (#684890 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Call me a conspiracy theorist but ....

Cracknell was claimed probably on the basis of Ruff's recommendation. He played for Ruff in Dallas. Cracknell is NOT an AV type player, yet Gorton picked him up.

AV clearly had no intention of ever using Cracknell. He gave him a brief look one game on the 4th line, then benched him in the 3rd period and scratched him every game thereafter. AV is clearly throwing a tantrum by dressing 7 D and only 11 forwards every game, as an "F-U" to Gorton.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a power struggle going on here and the players are aware of it. Seriously, who claims a player only to release him a week later?

#FireAV
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-24 3:22 PM (#684899 - in reply to #684890)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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PV29 - 2017-10-24 1:27 PM

Call me a conspiracy theorist but ....

Cracknell was claimed probably on the basis of Ruff's recommendation. He played for Ruff in Dallas. Cracknell is NOT an AV type player, yet Gorton picked him up.

AV clearly had no intention of ever using Cracknell. He gave him a brief look one game on the 4th line, then benched him in the 3rd period and scratched him every game thereafter. AV is clearly throwing a tantrum by dressing 7 D and only 11 forwards every game, as an "F-U" to Gorton.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a power struggle going on here and the players are aware of it. Seriously, who claims a player only to release him a week later?

#FireAV

Yep...I said something similar the other day...Like is AV trying to tell Gorton something with the 11/7?
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 5:38 PM (#684910 - in reply to #684890)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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PV29 - 2017-10-24 2:27 PM

Call me a conspiracy theorist but ....

Cracknell was claimed probably on the basis of Ruff's recommendation. He played for Ruff in Dallas. Cracknell is NOT an AV type player, yet Gorton picked him up.

AV clearly had no intention of ever using Cracknell. He gave him a brief look one game on the 4th line, then benched him in the 3rd period and scratched him every game thereafter. AV is clearly throwing a tantrum by dressing 7 D and only 11 forwards every game, as an "F-U" to Gorton.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a power struggle going on here and the players are aware of it. Seriously, who claims a player only to release him a week later?

#FireAV


I am sure there is some truth to this. There is definitely a power struggle going on... Gorton gets Cracknell for Ruff, AV refuses to use him. It can only end one way, because AV isn't going to fire Gorton after all this.

But before I go and celebrate #FireAV there's the question of who replaces him. Ruff, as I have pointed out, is not a good coach. Plus he was brought in to replace Beukeboom as our defensive coach, and we are at the bottom of the league in almost all defensive and PK categories. So why promote a guy who hasn't even done the job he was brought in to do?

We also have Arniel who is an AV guy, but his head coaching record is shorter (and worse) than Ruff's.

So firing AV may be cathartic but it will only be the first of many steps needed to rehabilitate the state of this team.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 5:41 PM (#684911 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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I have given Gorton a pass for the most part, his tenure has been overall productive. I haven't agreed with every individual move, but I also felt the organization was moving in the right direction. Until this offseason that is, when he tried to "rebuild on the fly" and is accomplishing neither goal.

I don't expect a miracle to pull us out of this nightmare October but it sure would be nice if there was a little more semblance of a plan and a strategy. At this point they are literally making it up as they go along.
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2017-10-24 10:21 PM (#684936 - in reply to #684911)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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concust - 2017-10-24 7:41 PM


I have given Gorton a pass for the most part, his tenure has been overall productive. I haven't agreed with every individual move, but I also felt the organization was moving in the right direction. Until this offseason that is, when he tried to "rebuild on the fly" and is accomplishing neither goal.

I don't expect a miracle to pull us out of this nightmare October but it sure would be nice if there was a little more semblance of a plan and a strategy. At this point they are literally making it up as they go along.


Seems like the only sensible thing to do is get rid of AV.... The team needs a different direction. We've had the best 7-8 years as Ranger fans minus not winning a cup, but had we won a cup or two over these past 8 years, we would accept these times as, this is what happens after so many good years.

Last year, or the last couple of years we've had really good starts because some players had good starts, this year, out of the 6 losses, 4 we could've easily won. AV has lost this team... they need a change... messing with players, without switching coaches is senseless... if after a new coach things don't work then you can look at Gorton... but then again Dolan runs this team, so all logic is lost.

If Kreider is moved before AV... That would piss me off. Lets see how these guys (Hayes-Miller-Kreider) perform under new direction before you ship them out.













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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-25 12:02 AM (#684938 - in reply to #684936)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Andy Bathgate - 2017-10-24 9:21 PM

concust - 2017-10-24 7:41 PM


I have given Gorton a pass for the most part, his tenure has been overall productive. I haven't agreed with every individual move, but I also felt the organization was moving in the right direction. Until this offseason that is, when he tried to "rebuild on the fly" and is accomplishing neither goal.

I don't expect a miracle to pull us out of this nightmare October but it sure would be nice if there was a little more semblance of a plan and a strategy. At this point they are literally making it up as they go along.


Seems like the only sensible thing to do is get rid of AV.... The team needs a different direction. We've had the best 7-8 years as Ranger fans minus not winning a cup, but had we won a cup or two over these past 8 years, we would accept these times as, this is what happens after so many good years.

Last year, or the last couple of years we've had really good starts because some players had good starts, this year, out of the 6 losses, 4 we could've easily won. AV has lost this team... they need a change... messing with players, without switching coaches is senseless... if after a new coach things don't work then you can look at Gorton... but then again Dolan runs this team, so all logic is lost.

If Kreider is moved before AV... That would piss me off. Lets see how these guys (Hayes-Miller-Kreider) perform under new direction before you ship them out.





C














I also do not want a Kreider, Miller ect traded to try for a spark. If double mint can’t get them going, then he should get going all the way out of New York.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-11-30 9:01 AM (#688886 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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The Cracknell episode is over. Holland isn't a bad pickup. Paving the way for a Desharnais exit?

NHL Totals 243 35 46 81 105

This is a pretty good upgrade over Cracknell and a player used to a fourth line PK role. Zibanejad has a concussion hopefully this is not a indication it could be long term.


https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/rangers-acquire-center-peter-holland...

Edited by Rranger 2017-11-30 10:09 AM
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Fish
Posted 2017-11-30 10:14 AM (#688893 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Cracknell definitely wasn't a fit, far too slow...but not sure Holland, at this stage, is a huge upgrade. Desharnais a better player iMO, and with Zibanejad concussion diagnosis, probably more to do with depth.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-11-30 10:32 AM (#688897 - in reply to #684910)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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concust - 2017-10-24 7:38 PM



But before I go and celebrate #FireAV there's the question of who replaces him. Ruff, as I have pointed out, is not a good coach. Plus he was brought in to replace Beukeboom as our defensive coach, and we are at the bottom of the league in almost all defensive and PK categories. So why promote a guy who hasn't even done the job he was brought in to do?




You trying doing that job when your head coach prefers the "Helter Skelter" method of defending. AV made it clear in the offseason that they would be no changes to the defensive scheme. That's a recipe for disaster no matter who's "supposedly" the defensive coach.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-12-01 9:13 AM (#688981 - in reply to #688897)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Mjolnir - 2017-11-30 9:32 AM

concust - 2017-10-24 7:38 PM



But before I go and celebrate #FireAV there's the question of who replaces him. Ruff, as I have pointed out, is not a good coach. Plus he was brought in to replace Beukeboom as our defensive coach, and we are at the bottom of the league in almost all defensive and PK categories. So why promote a guy who hasn't even done the job he was brought in to do?




You trying doing that job when your head coach prefers the "Helter Skelter" method of defending. AV made it clear in the offseason that they would be no changes to the defensive scheme. That's a recipe for disaster no matter who's "supposedly" the defensive coach.





Thats right Mjolnir A.V. sets out the structure Ruff follows orders. If a team wants a different structure and the head coach won't change it you change the coach. Roughly 26th worst goals against. First a highly regarded Jeff Beukeboom and now Ruff struggling with a flawed defensive structure. Go figure.

Edited by Rranger 2017-12-01 2:45 PM
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2017-12-01 12:37 PM (#688987 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Perhaps they should get Kovacs back. He seems to be putting it together in his league this year. A lot of young prospects are struggllng for the Pack this year. I was hoping once they got a new coach that the offense would pick up. Hopefully, the next 20 games will be lot better than the first 20. A least Andersson and Chytil look good. I doubt Gorton has the Stones to trade McDonagh or Nash at the deadline if the Rangers are anywhere close to a playoff spot.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-12-01 12:50 PM (#688988 - in reply to #688987)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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itsmcilrathtime - 2017-12-01 12:37 PM

Perhaps they should get Kovacs back. He seems to be putting it together in his league this year. A lot of young prospects are struggllng for the Pack this year. I was hoping once they got a new coach that the offense would pick up. Hopefully, the next 20 games will be lot better than the first 20. A least Andersson and Chytil look good. I doubt Gorton has the Stones to trade McDonagh or Nash at the deadline if the Rangers are anywhere close to a playoff spot.

If they dont trade those guys...and then go and extend them...We will be witnessing a new level of NYR Front office Ineptness... Im scared that what you say is true.
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Vua
Posted 2017-12-01 1:38 PM (#688991 - in reply to #688981)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Rranger - 2017-12-01 9:13 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-11-30 9:32 AM

concust - 2017-10-24 7:38 PM



But before I go and celebrate #FireAV there's the question of who replaces him. Ruff, as I have pointed out, is not a good coach. Plus he was brought in to replace Beukeboom as our defensive coach, and we are at the bottom of the league in almost all defensive and PK categories. So why promote a guy who hasn't even done the job he was brought in to do?




You trying doing that job when your head coach prefers the "Helter Skelter" method of defending. AV made it clear in the offseason that they would be no changes to the defensive scheme. That's a recipe for disaster no matter who's "supposedly" the defensive coach.





Thats right Vua A.V. sets out the structure Ruff follows orders. If a team wants a different structure and the head coach won't change it you change the coach. Roughly 26th worst goals against. First a highly regarded Jeff Beukeboom and now Ruff struggling with a flawed defensive structure. Go figure.


Did I post and miss it or are you now insulting people by calling them me? Or maybe complimenting them by calling them me? Either way I like it.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-12-01 2:48 PM (#688993 - in reply to #688991)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Vua - 2017-12-01 12:38 PM

Rranger - 2017-12-01 9:13 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-11-30 9:32 AM

concust - 2017-10-24 7:38 PM



But before I go and celebrate #FireAV there's the question of who replaces him. Ruff, as I have pointed out, is not a good coach. Plus he was brought in to replace Beukeboom as our defensive coach, and we are at the bottom of the league in almost all defensive and PK categories. So why promote a guy who hasn't even done the job he was brought in to do?




You trying doing that job when your head coach prefers the "Helter Skelter" method of defending. AV made it clear in the offseason that they would be no changes to the defensive scheme. That's a recipe for disaster no matter who's "supposedly" the defensive coach.





Thats right Vua A.V. sets out the structure Ruff follows orders. If a team wants a different structure and the head coach won't change it you change the coach. Roughly 26th worst goals against. First a highly regarded Jeff Beukeboom and now Ruff struggling with a flawed defensive structure. Go figure.


Did I post and miss it or are you now insulting people by calling them me? Or maybe complimenting them by calling them me? Either way I like it.



My bad repaired it. I was all fired up about our common ground.
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Vua
Posted 2017-12-01 4:43 PM (#689011 - in reply to #688993)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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Rranger - 2017-12-01 2:48 PM

Vua - 2017-12-01 12:38 PM

Rranger - 2017-12-01 9:13 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-11-30 9:32 AM

concust - 2017-10-24 7:38 PM



But before I go and celebrate #FireAV there's the question of who replaces him. Ruff, as I have pointed out, is not a good coach. Plus he was brought in to replace Beukeboom as our defensive coach, and we are at the bottom of the league in almost all defensive and PK categories. So why promote a guy who hasn't even done the job he was brought in to do?




You trying doing that job when your head coach prefers the "Helter Skelter" method of defending. AV made it clear in the offseason that they would be no changes to the defensive scheme. That's a recipe for disaster no matter who's "supposedly" the defensive coach.





Thats right Vua A.V. sets out the structure Ruff follows orders. If a team wants a different structure and the head coach won't change it you change the coach. Roughly 26th worst goals against. First a highly regarded Jeff Beukeboom and now Ruff struggling with a flawed defensive structure. Go figure.


Did I post and miss it or are you now insulting people by calling them me? Or maybe complimenting them by calling them me? Either way I like it.



My bad repaired it. I was all fired up about our common ground.


No worries. Just a little confused at first. Thought I posted earlier in the thread and looked through it like 20 times sure I was just missing it. And I'm sure we agree on things, but I don't often post just to agree when someone makes a post I agree with. It does happen sometimes though.
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concust
Posted 2017-12-05 7:44 AM (#689300 - in reply to #688897)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Mjolnir - 2017-11-30 11:32 AM

concust - 2017-10-24 7:38 PM



But before I go and celebrate #FireAV there's the question of who replaces him. Ruff, as I have pointed out, is not a good coach. Plus he was brought in to replace Beukeboom as our defensive coach, and we are at the bottom of the league in almost all defensive and PK categories. So why promote a guy who hasn't even done the job he was brought in to do?




You trying doing that job when your head coach prefers the "Helter Skelter" method of defending. AV made it clear in the offseason that they would be no changes to the defensive scheme. That's a recipe for disaster no matter who's "supposedly" the defensive coach.


Not going to give AV a pass here either, but there is no evidence that Ruff is a good defensive coach. Of course it's up to the head coach to set the general defensive scheme. So let's look at Ruff's last 6 seasons as a head coach, where he was the one that set the defensive scheme:

Team ranking, goals against:

2016-17: 29th (Dallas)
2015-16: 20th (Dallas)
2014-15: 26th (Dallas)
2013-14: 17th (Dallas)
2012-13: 23rd (Buffalo)
2011-12: 18th (Buffalo)

His best defensive season in the past 6 years is when he was two spots off the median. I don't know where this idea that Ruff is a good defensive coach, or even a good coach in general, comes from, but neither is true. At least AV has a decent HC record and successes to point to, Ruff has none of those.

I'm totally with most of you who want AV gone but Ruff is not a better option, just a different one. (In fact I think he's probably a worse head coach than AV)


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concust
Posted 2017-12-05 7:49 AM (#689301 - in reply to #684863)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Also I 've been away for a couple days but you guys didn't even talk about the trade?

Rangers acquire Peter Holland from MTL for Adam Cracknell. Holland is younger (26), better offensively (19 points in 22 games in the AHL this year), and is another in the long line of players who could get 4th line minutes in the future. For now he's in Hartford. Good trade.
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Vua
Posted 2017-12-05 8:00 AM (#689302 - in reply to #689301)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers


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concust - 2017-12-05 7:49 AM

Also I 've been away for a couple days but you guys didn't even talk about the trade?

Rangers acquire Peter Holland from MTL for Adam Cracknell. Holland is younger (26), better offensively (19 points in 22 games in the AHL this year), and is another in the long line of players who could get 4th line minutes in the future. For now he's in Hartford. Good trade.


I guess I'm just not impressed with stacking the bottom of the center depth when we need to stack the top of it. Unlike others here, I don't like Miller at center. He's currently better than the other options we have, but I'd prefer him on the wing.
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concust
Posted 2017-12-05 4:22 PM (#689325 - in reply to #689302)
Subject: Re: Cracknell on waivers



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Vua - 2017-12-05 9:00 AM

concust - 2017-12-05 7:49 AM

Also I 've been away for a couple days but you guys didn't even talk about the trade?

Rangers acquire Peter Holland from MTL for Adam Cracknell. Holland is younger (26), better offensively (19 points in 22 games in the AHL this year), and is another in the long line of players who could get 4th line minutes in the future. For now he's in Hartford. Good trade.


I guess I'm just not impressed with stacking the bottom of the center depth when we need to stack the top of it. Unlike others here, I don't like Miller at center. He's currently better than the other options we have, but I'd prefer him on the wing.


Agree on both points. The trade though looks like a short and long term win for NYR even though it's not a move that will solve any problems (nor cause any).

Rangers do like to keep up appearances of "keeping busy" by acquiring and trading away fringe NHL forwards and defensemen.

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