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Duchene Dealt
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Mandar
Posted 2017-11-05 6:07 PM (#686613)
Subject: Duchene Dealt


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Three way deal between COL/OTT/NSH

Duchene to Ottawa
Turris to NSH
COL gets Ottawa's 1st & 3rd; NSH 2nd rounder; and 4 prospects (Girard, Hammond, Kamenev, Bowers)

Big haul.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-11-05 6:11 PM (#686614 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: RE: Duchene Dealt


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Mandar - 2017-11-05 5:07 PM

Three way deal between COL/OTT/NSH

Duchene to Ottawa
Turris to NSH
COL gets Ottawa's 1st & 3rd; NSH 2nd rounder; and 4 prospects (Girard, Hammond, Kamenev, Bowers)

Big haul.






Sakic did very well.
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Mandar
Posted 2017-11-05 6:25 PM (#686615 - in reply to #686614)
Subject: RE: Duchene Dealt


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Rranger - 2017-11-05 8:11 PM

Mandar - 2017-11-05 5:07 PM

Three way deal between COL/OTT/NSH

Duchene to Ottawa
Turris to NSH
COL gets Ottawa's 1st & 3rd; NSH 2nd rounder; and 4 prospects (Girard, Hammond, Kamenev, Bowers)

Big haul.



Sakic did very well.

Rolling the dice on prospects and picks. If he gets lucky with the picks, then Sakic did well. Those picks won't be high in each round.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-11-05 7:06 PM (#686616 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt


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That’s a lot of Hiroshi for Duchene, with the big question being how much more will he give to Ottawa than Turris did. Bowers was a first, Kamenev and Girardi second rounders. All three of them are still considered good young prospects. Hammond was very good for a run in Ottawa last season, plus the three picks, granted they are later, and Colorado has to get something for sure. But If I’m Colorado I’m happy with three picks developing and another three on the way, and if Hammond can back up in Colorado, Sakic has done very well. The X factor is how well Duchene does, and he’s got to pick his game up.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-11-05 7:38 PM (#686617 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt


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Sakic hoping that the picks and prospects pan out.....We shall see....Hell we could of gave Colorado 2 picks and 4 prospects lol
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mpcelo45
Posted 2017-11-06 5:02 AM (#686624 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt



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I think Nashville came out on top.

They now have 4 solid centers in Johansen, Turris, Bonino and Jarnkrok.

That is a very envious list wish the Rangers had either one of them.
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concust
Posted 2017-11-06 12:33 PM (#686639 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt



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Sakic got his bounty. Of course it will depend on how the picks and prospects turn out but Duchene is a forward who scored at the same rate as Stepan the last 3 years. Girard is a young defenseman who's already in the pros (i.e. Skjei but younger) Kamenev was a top 5 prospect for Nashville, Hammond is a throw in, Bowers was Ottawa's first rounder this past draft. Plus the first, second, and third. That's a HAUL for a forward that's scored 50-60 points the last 3 years.

For comparison, Taylor Hall, a better forward, returned.... Adam Larsson. That's it.

Ottawa gets an asset they can continue to build around and compete with, Nashville goes all-in win-now mode with Turris. I guess they all improved.



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Vua
Posted 2017-11-06 2:19 PM (#686653 - in reply to #686639)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt


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concust - 2017-11-06 12:33 PM

Sakic got his bounty. Of course it will depend on how the picks and prospects turn out but Duchene is a forward who scored at the same rate as Stepan the last 3 years. Girard is a young defenseman who's already in the pros (i.e. Skjei but younger) Kamenev was a top 5 prospect for Nashville, Hammond is a throw in, Bowers was Ottawa's first rounder this past draft. Plus the first, second, and third. That's a HAUL for a forward that's scored 50-60 points the last 3 years.

For comparison, Taylor Hall, a better forward, returned.... Adam Larsson. That's it.

Ottawa gets an asset they can continue to build around and compete with, Nashville goes all-in win-now mode with Turris. I guess they all improved.





Is Duchene that much better Turris? Is he any better than Turris? I think you'd be splitting hairs to say so. All Ottawa got was an extra season of a center imo.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2017-11-06 2:53 PM (#686655 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt


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Duchene is so overrated it's mind boggling. This was a good move for the Av's.
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Av-merican
Posted 2017-11-06 3:29 PM (#686657 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt


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Short-term I think Nashville wins this one big-time. They shore up a clear weakness (2C) without having to give up any of their prime prospects/young players (Fabbro, Tolvanen, etc.) AND get him signed long-term. They are a much stronger team on paper now than they were at last year's SCF. The only question mark they have IMO is in goal. Rinne is good but I don't think he's among the NHL elite any longer.

Long-term the Avs could parlay the futures dealt (seven assets!!!) into quite the haul. In recent years they upended their draft/development scheme and showed Rick Pracey (the guy who drafted Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly and Tyson Barrie all in the same year) the door after less-than-stellar returns in drafts outside of that outstanding 2009 class. Alan Hepple has done a markedly better job, but he's also had a few whiffs already. And the Avs will be paying the price for their disastrous 2014 draft for years to come. They are worse short-term for sure

I am among the biggest Matty Duchene fans around, but even I gotta admit I think the Sens and Pierre Dorion seriously overpaid here. They gave up a 1st, a 3rd, and a semi-decent prospect for what looks like a decent, but not massive upgrade on Kyle Turris. I don't count Turris per se because he was an expiring asset they appeared to be losing anyway.

I hope Dutchy absolutely KILLS IT for the Sens, even if he carves up the Avs for these two upcoming games in Sweden (ain't that gonna be quite the story). But I think Joe Sakic and Chris MacFarland (Avs asst GM) should get due credit for getting a very good haul of futures for a player I consider to be very, very good, but not elite. He stubbornly held on when everyone else (including me) told him to cut bait. And while I think he's made egregious errors since taking over the Avs, he deserves praise in this instance.

And no, I don't think the Rangers could have nor should have made a play for Duchene. They need depth at center for sure, but it's probably just best to wait until one of these hotshot Euro wunderkinds is ready or look for a viable fill-in in the bargain bin.
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Vua
Posted 2017-11-06 5:20 PM (#686675 - in reply to #686657)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt


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Av-merican - 2017-11-06 3:29 PM

Short-term I think Nashville wins this one big-time. They shore up a clear weakness (2C) without having to give up any of their prime prospects/young players (Fabbro, Tolvanen, etc.) AND get him signed long-term. They are a much stronger team on paper now than they were at last year's SCF. The only question mark they have IMO is in goal. Rinne is good but I don't think he's among the NHL elite any longer.

Long-term the Avs could parlay the futures dealt (seven assets!!!) into quite the haul. In recent years they upended their draft/development scheme and showed Rick Pracey (the guy who drafted Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly and Tyson Barrie all in the same year) the door after less-than-stellar returns in drafts outside of that outstanding 2009 class. Alan Hepple has done a markedly better job, but he's also had a few whiffs already. And the Avs will be paying the price for their disastrous 2014 draft for years to come. They are worse short-term for sure

I am among the biggest Matty Duchene fans around, but even I gotta admit I think the Sens and Pierre Dorion seriously overpaid here. They gave up a 1st, a 3rd, and a semi-decent prospect for what looks like a decent, but not massive upgrade on Kyle Turris. I don't count Turris per se because he was an expiring asset they appeared to be losing anyway.

I hope Dutchy absolutely KILLS IT for the Sens, even if he carves up the Avs for these two upcoming games in Sweden (ain't that gonna be quite the story). But I think Joe Sakic and Chris MacFarland (Avs asst GM) should get due credit for getting a very good haul of futures for a player I consider to be very, very good, but not elite. He stubbornly held on when everyone else (including me) told him to cut bait. And while I think he's made egregious errors since taking over the Avs, he deserves praise in this instance.

And no, I don't think the Rangers could have nor should have made a play for Duchene. They need depth at center for sure, but it's probably just best to wait until one of these hotshot Euro wunderkinds is ready or look for a viable fill-in in the bargain bin.


Obviously it depends on how the picks work out but it looks like Sakic hit a home run here. Most people, including me, thought he was holding out for too much and that he would end up getting nothing close to what he wanted. To me they made out the best in the trade but it could still be screwed up by picks and prospects that don't pan out. Nashville gets the more immediate return which is what they wanted. The Senators trade a 2nd line center and extras for another 2nd line center with an extra year on his contract. Maybe he plays better with a better team and I'm wrong.
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concust
Posted 2017-11-07 7:52 AM (#686951 - in reply to #686653)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt



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Vua - 2017-11-06 3:19 PM

concust - 2017-11-06 12:33 PM

Sakic got his bounty. Of course it will depend on how the picks and prospects turn out but Duchene is a forward who scored at the same rate as Stepan the last 3 years. Girard is a young defenseman who's already in the pros (i.e. Skjei but younger) Kamenev was a top 5 prospect for Nashville, Hammond is a throw in, Bowers was Ottawa's first rounder this past draft. Plus the first, second, and third. That's a HAUL for a forward that's scored 50-60 points the last 3 years.

For comparison, Taylor Hall, a better forward, returned.... Adam Larsson. That's it.

Ottawa gets an asset they can continue to build around and compete with, Nashville goes all-in win-now mode with Turris. I guess they all improved.





Is Duchene that much better Turris? Is he any better than Turris? I think you'd be splitting hairs to say so. All Ottawa got was an extra season of a center imo.


No, personally I'd rather have Turris than Duchene actually. I think this is more driven by the fact that Duchene has a year left on his deal, so they basically get 2 years, whereas Turris is UFA after this year (and two years older). There's also the possibility of signing Duchene longer term, where talks with Turris had broken down. He was not getting an extension from Ottawa.

If there's a "loser" in this trade I'd say it was Ottawa, just because they gave up a lot and may not have received full value. They gave up a third round pick, Bowers (first round 2017) Turris, and Hammond, both set to be UFA. They received this year of Duchene and next year of Duchene, and the possibility he stays there longer term. It's a win-now move by Ottawa, and honestly I don't think the rest of their team is really in position to win-now.

They may have turned out better if they had just held Turris and Hammond, and flipped them at the deadline. Turris would have a lot of value at the deadline. However that's a win-later move that they probably didn't want to make.

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concust
Posted 2017-11-07 7:55 AM (#686952 - in reply to #686675)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt



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Vua - 2017-11-06 6:20 PM


Obviously it depends on how the picks work out but it looks like Sakic hit a home run here. Most people, including me, thought he was holding out for too much and that he would end up getting nothing close to what he wanted. To me they made out the best in the trade but it could still be screwed up by picks and prospects that don't pan out. Nashville gets the more immediate return which is what they wanted. The Senators trade a 2nd line center and extras for another 2nd line center with an extra year on his contract. Maybe he plays better with a better team and I'm wrong.


Sakic getting 7 assets for Duchene is almost insane. He didn't land a true blue chipper like a Filip Forsberg, but, he got 3 very good young players/prospects and a 1 and 2 and 3. No matter how those guys turn out Sakic won because Duchene was a dead end and a distraction anyway.

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Av-merican
Posted 2017-11-14 8:00 AM (#687416 - in reply to #686613)
Subject: Re: Duchene Dealt


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Well the Sens are hoping Duchene has another level in him. Don't know if that's worth betting on the way they have but talent-wise, he's a legit 1st line center. The production hasn't been there of course, but he's been on thoroughly lousy teams with thoroughly lousy coaching for quite some time now, he will now be on a squad with the best defenseman and best coach he's ever had in his NHL career. Don't know how big a difference that will make, but it will make one. I'm curious to see how well he adapts to Boucher's trapping style. He's not allergic to defense but it definitely ain't his strong suit.

Avs now have some decisions to make. Girard will either have to be sent down in a game or two or he stays and the ELC kicks in. They currently have 9 defenders on the roster, 1 on IR. And with Kamenev making the jump to the NHL they'll have too many forwards as well. It'll be a much easier call there though.
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