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K'Andre Miller
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concust
Posted 2018-06-25 3:52 PM (#707283 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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Rangers wanted him and they got him.

If they didn't trade up and someone else takes him, then we probably draft Lundkvist at 26, and then ???? at 28, and keep the second round pick? I'm not sure that's a better option, especially considering the atrocious drafting on the second day.
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sureshore
Posted 2018-06-25 5:30 PM (#707285 - in reply to #707281)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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robstones - 2018-06-25 5:30 PM

The Wild and Ottawa both took defense with their picks.

If we want to take Bob McKenzies rankings to heart, he had Miller ranked #24
Craig Button's mock draft had The Wild taking K'Andre at #24, also. As well as having Ottawa take a dman with their original pick of #22.

very possible that K'Andre is off the board before 26


Not to mention the mock draft I depend on most had him at 20
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NYR # 1
Posted 2018-06-25 6:38 PM (#707291 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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I have no issue trading up to get Miller. I do have an issue with asset valuing to deal a pick in the 40's. Certainly possible that was Ottawa's demand, but I struggle with that given what the Blues gave up for pick 25. That's my issue. If we dealt a later pick to move up 4 spots in the 20's I'd have no issue with it.


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Rranger
Posted 2018-06-25 11:09 PM (#707299 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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I didn’t like the Ranger trade up deal after seeing what St. Louis paid four or five picks later. Immediately posted that. But there are variables in the trading up the Rangers did, that we will never know. . Perhaps St. Louis was in on trying to secure the pick from Ottawa providing competition for the pick. What the Rangers gave up wasn’t outrageous and in the park with previous years similar type deals.
I think the thing being ignored everywhere is Toronto’s return for trading down, compared to what Ottawa got. It’s just as easy to say Toronto got fleeced while the Senators received market value. I think there is something to be said about that, moreso than the Rangers getting fleeced. In retrospect maybe it’s Dubas who should be under the microscope.
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ej17
Posted 2018-06-26 7:12 AM (#707300 - in reply to #707299)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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Who Knows what took place, Maybe another GM was going to grab him and this is the best they could to secure a pick they wanted.. If it pans out then its well worth with.. Don't think anyone was on the floor handling the phones so who knows what took place
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concust
Posted 2018-06-26 7:29 AM (#707301 - in reply to #707299)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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Rranger - 2018-06-26 12:09 AM

I didn’t like the Ranger trade up deal after seeing what St. Louis paid four or five picks later. Immediately posted that. But there are variables in the trading up the Rangers did, that we will never know. . Perhaps St. Louis was in on trying to secure the pick from Ottawa providing competition for the pick. What the Rangers gave up wasn’t outrageous and in the park with previous years similar type deals.
I think the thing being ignored everywhere is Toronto’s return for trading down, compared to what Ottawa got. It’s just as easy to say Toronto got fleeced while the Senators received market value. I think there is something to be said about that, moreso than the Rangers getting fleeced. In retrospect maybe it’s Dubas who should be under the microscope.


It's been reported that the Ducks would have taken Miller at 23 had the Rangers not traded up. So that would in part explain the higher cost, due to the urgency of wanting that specific player.

Like you said in the Toronto scenario, there are a lot of factors in play with any of these transactions. But the teams are making trades to get the players they want and we'll never know all the behind the scenes. Also, it takes two to tango - so it's not a simple application of "you got this for that so you should have gotten x for y". There is a whole other team with their own motivations to consider, and unless the stars align and it makes sense for both sides, then the trade doesn't happen and you never hear about it.

In a vacuum I'd say that 29 and 78 for 25, is a low value trade, but not a rip off. Similarly, 22 for 26 and 48 is high value, but again not in the magnitude of "rip off." A closer examination of what's been reported explains the difference here, Rangers wanted Miller because Ducks would have taken them (unless Ducks are lying and playing mind games) so Rangers paid a higher price within range. Toronto, who ended up picking Sundin, a Greyhound where Dubas was GM, was probably their target all along for a late first. So 25 rolls around and they're confident they'll still get him, so they just go around looking for the best they can get and still stay late first. Those are two entirely different scenarios, motivated by two entirely different set of circumstances, which to me at least, explains why the Rangers paid on the high end of the range and the Leafs paid on the low end.

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robstones
Posted 2018-06-26 9:58 AM (#707309 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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We don't know how much intel the GMs have of other team's list on the floor. A number of teams could've had Miller high on their list whereas Bokk may not have been on the lists of Toronto or the rest of the 1st round picking teams beind them. We don't know
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concust
Posted 2018-06-26 1:10 PM (#707318 - in reply to #707309)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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robstones - 2018-06-26 10:58 AM

We don't know how much intel the GMs have of other team's list on the floor. A number of teams could've had Miller high on their list whereas Bokk may not have been on the lists of Toronto or the rest of the 1st round picking teams beind them. We don't know


I'll tell you this much, spending the second round pick to get Miller is all anyone is talking about, but wasting a second round pick on Lindbom is what everyone SHOULD be talking about. You want to talk about not getting value for your picks.... start with that one. I can't recall the last time they made a pick so blatantly poor and they probably did it twice this draft.

Before this draft, maybe Zborovsky, but even he turned out not as terrible as i expected.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-06-26 2:26 PM (#707326 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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Goalie with the 2 was stupid and atrocious....Gordie Clark...he needs to go...and Benny should not be allowed near the draft table or have input
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Rranger
Posted 2018-06-26 4:00 PM (#707331 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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St. Louis was probably in competition with the Rangers for Ottawa’s pick. Rangers wanted their guy Miller, and paid what it took to get Miller. I’d rather have a GM being proactive to a point to get who he wants. The price paid was not off the charts. The point was made the Rangers overpaid based on the St. Louis/Toronto trade that happened after the fact. Thats not really fair to Gorton, Ottawa undoubtably demanded the second round pick, the Rangers wanted their guy so they paid the piper. It’s pretty obvious the Rangers felt they had to move up to get Miller.
St. Louis and Toronto trade 5 picks later and it’s a different landscape. The dynamics were opposite, in the Ranger/Sens trade the Rangers were the motivated buyer with Ottawa playing the unmotivated seller looking to capitalize on the trade. Toronto was open to moving down, St. Louis offered the 72 pick I believe probably not being overly concerned it Toronto took it or not. Dubas did end of story.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-06-26 4:11 PM (#707332 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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Yep...I have no problem how they got Miller...He was going right after Ott pick to at least 2 teams...Now we hope he lives up to the hype
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-06-26 4:12 PM (#707333 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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Did Gordie tell Jeff to get Miller...and do whatever was necessary? Lets hope he lives up to the hype
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Rranger
Posted 2018-06-26 5:16 PM (#707335 - in reply to #707332)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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Mikey Red - 2018-06-26 3:11 PM

Yep...I have no problem how they got Miller...He was going right after Ott pick to at least 2 teams...Now we hope he lives up to the hype





I’m good now, right after the deal I was wondering why the discrepancy between what tha Rangers paid and what St. Louis paid, but upon reflection I’m good with it and good on the Rangers for getting their man, hopefully he’s worth it.

Edited by Rranger 2018-06-26 5:17 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-06-26 5:30 PM (#707336 - in reply to #707335)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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Rranger - 2018-06-26 7:16 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-06-26 3:11 PM

Yep...I have no problem how they got Miller...He was going right after Ott pick to at least 2 teams...Now we hope he lives up to the hype





I’m good now, right after the deal I was wondering why the discrepancy between what tha Rangers paid and what St. Louis paid, but upon reflection I’m good with it and good on the Rangers for getting their man, hopefully he’s worth it.

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concust
Posted 2018-06-27 9:02 AM (#707352 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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Rangers have had pretty good luck with Wisconsin Badgers in the past.
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2018-06-29 11:37 AM (#707435 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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https://www.nhl.com/rangers/video/granato-discuses-kandre-miller/t-2...
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2018-06-30 10:00 AM (#707492 - in reply to #707191)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller


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THN says may be next Seth Jones. I'll take it.
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-06-30 11:39 AM (#707496 - in reply to #707435)
Subject: Re: K'Andre Miller



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This "interview" is a complete waste of internet space and my bandwidth.
No info in there. Literally. None.

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