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Projected Line-up per Brooks
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 10:03 AM (#708459 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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It better ....ROR got 9 pieces in 2 trades...Gorton traded 2 pieces and only got 2 pieces back...... Stepan was also not on a NYR team of great scoring ability they were a lunch pail team....Yes we had to trade Stepan but we did not get equal value for him...ROR played on team with Duchene and Mackinon in Colorado ...and Eichel and Kane with Buffalo....we dont have any players that are as good as those 4
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 11:48 AM (#708461 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Since when is a 50 point season good from your first line? Since when is a 50 point first line center a "solid" or "nice" player.

50 points isn't even in the top 100 point getters of the NHL.

Why would we think Kreider getting 50 points is good? Or, why would we think stepan as a number one center was "solid" with 50 points?
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 11:53 AM (#708462 - in reply to #708459)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 10:03 AM

It better ....ROR got 9 pieces in 2 trades...Gorton traded 2 pieces and only got 2 pieces back...... Stepan was also not on a NYR team of great scoring ability they were a lunch pail team....Yes we had to trade Stepan but we did not get equal value for him...ROR played on team with Duchene and Mackinon in Colorado ...and Eichel and Kane with Buffalo....we dont have any players that are as good as those 4


2014-2015

stepan had Nash on his wing, Nash had 42 goals. Stepan finished that season with ONLY 55 points.

Stepan is not missed at all!!
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Go NYR
Posted 2018-08-05 12:55 PM (#708464 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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I agree with you RJ. Stepan was our # 1 by default. To me getting out of that terrible deal AND getting the # 7 pick made it well worth it. Now whether Andersson is a hit or not is TBD, but if you told me hey you could get the # 7 pick in the draft for Stepan one week before his terrible deal kicked in, I would say yes every single time.

I do think Stepan is a solid player though. He gets mid 50's in points and is a two-way player. To me that is solid. Nothing spectacular or great at all, but solid seems like a fair word to describe him IMO.







Edited by Go NYR 2018-08-05 12:57 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 1:43 PM (#708467 - in reply to #708462)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 1:53 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 10:03 AM

It better ....ROR got 9 pieces in 2 trades...Gorton traded 2 pieces and only got 2 pieces back...... Stepan was also not on a NYR team of great scoring ability they were a lunch pail team....Yes we had to trade Stepan but we did not get equal value for him...ROR played on team with Duchene and Mackinon in Colorado ...and Eichel and Kane with Buffalo....we dont have any players that are as good as those 4


2014-2015

stepan had Nash on his wing, Nash had 42 goals. Stepan finished that season with ONLY 55 points.

Stepan is not missed at all!!

Yep totally I hated Stepan but he did have value and was our #1 Center

ROR 651 GP 155 goals 267 Assists 422 pts
Stepan 597 GP 142 goals 274 assists 416 pts

Rock that tonight lol
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 1:46 PM (#708468 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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So according to those stats....very similar and you can make the case ROR played with better players and has 1 more year in the league than Stepan...... and he still brought back 9 pieces....Rock me tonight
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 1:48 PM (#708469 - in reply to #708464)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Go NYR - 2018-08-05 2:55 PM

I agree with you RJ. Stepan was our # 1 by default. To me getting out of that terrible deal AND getting the # 7 pick made it well worth it. Now whether Andersson is a hit or not is TBD, but if you told me hey you could get the # 7 pick in the draft for Stepan one week before his terrible deal kicked in, I would say yes every single time.

I do think Stepan is a solid player though. He gets mid 50's in points and is a two-way player. To me that is solid. Nothing spectacular or great at all, but solid seems like a fair word to describe him IMO.






Getting the #7 for Stepan is of course nice....but it wasnt enough and Gordie didnt take the BPA
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 1:52 PM (#708470 - in reply to #708461)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 1:48 PM

Since when is a 50 point season good from your first line? Since when is a 50 point first line center a "solid" or "nice" player.

50 points isn't even in the top 100 point getters of the NHL.

Why would we think Kreider getting 50 points is good? Or, why would we think stepan as a number one center was "solid" with 50 points?

Neither are ideal situations
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 1:54 PM (#708471 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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And hopefully Gorton from now on will not give out NMC or NTC etc...
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 1:59 PM (#708473 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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And if you want to get a little crazy ROR is a career -53 Stepan is a +102
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Go NYR
Posted 2018-08-05 2:39 PM (#708474 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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The issue with your assessment is you are devaluing Andersson. Essentially in your version we didn't take the BPA and Andersson will be a whatever 3rd line player. That's how you are viewing the Stepan deal. I am viewing it as we got the 7th pick, and a young dman with upside, for a solid player whose contract was about to get crazy (with a NMC) and that hurt his value, yet we still got a good return.

If Andersson doesn't pan out I do not believe that makes the trade bad, I think that makes the selection of Andersson the wrong choice. Getting the # 7 pick for a solid player with a terrible bloated contract is a great move.


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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:00 PM (#708475 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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I hope Lias pans out....if he doesnt its a disaster because it dont look like TD will be around either.....ROR brought back Zadorov and Grriorgenko back to the Avs.....thats serious return....I agree with you on the need to get rid of him....My point is that the FO botched what could of been a better return....Stepan stats show it
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 3:11 PM (#708476 - in reply to #708467)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 1:43 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 1:53 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 10:03 AM

It better ....ROR got 9 pieces in 2 trades...Gorton traded 2 pieces and only got 2 pieces back...... Stepan was also not on a NYR team of great scoring ability they were a lunch pail team....Yes we had to trade Stepan but we did not get equal value for him...ROR played on team with Duchene and Mackinon in Colorado ...and Eichel and Kane with Buffalo....we dont have any players that are as good as those 4


2014-2015

stepan had Nash on his wing, Nash had 42 goals. Stepan finished that season with ONLY 55 points.

Stepan is not missed at all!!

Yep totally I hated Stepan but he did have value and was our #1 Center

ROR 651 GP 155 goals 267 Assists 422 pts
Stepan 597 GP 142 goals 274 assists 416 pts

Rock that tonight lol


ROR played on a horrible colorado team and Buffalo, probably the worst team. Stepan played on playoff teams.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:14 PM (#708477 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Also will Lias ever be our 1C? who knows but the scouting report on him doesnt peg him as a def top 6 forward
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 3:14 PM (#708478 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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stepan 3rd line player traded to Arizona for the Lias pick another 3rd line player.

Anderson is younger and cheaper. We won that trade!
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:16 PM (#708480 - in reply to #708478)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:14 PM

stepan 3rd line player traded to Arizona for the Lias pick another 3rd line player.

Anderson is younger and cheaper. We won that trade!

We won if we took him in the 3rd round lol
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:17 PM (#708482 - in reply to #708476)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:11 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 1:43 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 1:53 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 10:03 AM

It better ....ROR got 9 pieces in 2 trades...Gorton traded 2 pieces and only got 2 pieces back...... Stepan was also not on a NYR team of great scoring ability they were a lunch pail team....Yes we had to trade Stepan but we did not get equal value for him...ROR played on team with Duchene and Mackinon in Colorado ...and Eichel and Kane with Buffalo....we dont have any players that are as good as those 4


2014-2015

stepan had Nash on his wing, Nash had 42 goals. Stepan finished that season with ONLY 55 points.

Stepan is not missed at all!!

Yep totally I hated Stepan but he did have value and was our #1 Center

ROR 651 GP 155 goals 267 Assists 422 pts
Stepan 597 GP 142 goals 274 assists 416 pts

Rock that tonight lol


ROR played on a horrible colorado team and Buffalo, probably the worst team. Stepan played on playoff teams.

True but the stats are the stats ROR might of been on that Avs team that went nuts in Roys 1st year as Coach...Im not sure.... He had better Offensive talent around him on both teams
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:20 PM (#708483 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Stepan didnt have a Mackinnon, Duchene, Eichel or Kane to play with.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 3:20 PM (#708484 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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I'm not sure he had better offensive talent around him....
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 3:21 PM (#708485 - in reply to #708483)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:20 PM

Stepan didnt have a Mackinnon, Duchene, Eichel or Kane to play with.


ROR is a center...

3 of those 4 players you mention are centers, so he didn't play with them either
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:25 PM (#708486 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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When ROR got traded to Buffalo....The Sabres gave up Zadorov who is a Monster 1st pair D....Grigorenko was also a 1st round pick but he went back to the KHL...Compher is also a young 2nd round pick who is in the Avs lineup......Now ROR gets traded to the Blues for a 1st and 2nd plus 3 players....Thats how its done
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:26 PM (#708487 - in reply to #708485)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:21 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:20 PM

Stepan didnt have a Mackinnon, Duchene, Eichel or Kane to play with.


ROR is a center...

3 of those 4 players you mention are centers, so he didn't play with them either

Im sure they played together PP time....We hated Stepan but he put up the results
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 3:31 PM (#708488 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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I get ya....But,

what really accounts for a players value? It's what a team is willing to pay to get that player.

Hard to turn a bronze type player like stepan into a gold player
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 3:32 PM (#708489 - in reply to #708487)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:26 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:21 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:20 PM

Stepan didnt have a Mackinnon, Duchene, Eichel or Kane to play with.


ROR is a center...

3 of those 4 players you mention are centers, so he didn't play with them either

Im sure they played together PP time....We hated Stepan but he put up the results


Results??

I have to come on here more often and keep you sane.....50 points from a 1C is not results

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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 3:39 PM (#708491 - in reply to #708489)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:32 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:26 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:21 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:20 PM

Stepan didnt have a Mackinnon, Duchene, Eichel or Kane to play with.


ROR is a center...

3 of those 4 players you mention are centers, so he didn't play with them either

Im sure they played together PP time....We hated Stepan but he put up the results


Results??

I have to come on here more often and keep you sane.....50 points from a 1C is not results


Lol haha Thanks Brother I appreciate it...I should have clarified...I meant Stepans results were similar to ROR....50 pts from a 1C is def not good
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 3:43 PM (#708493 - in reply to #708491)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:39 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:32 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:26 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 5:21 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-05 3:20 PM

Stepan didnt have a Mackinnon, Duchene, Eichel or Kane to play with.


ROR is a center...

3 of those 4 players you mention are centers, so he didn't play with them either

Im sure they played together PP time....We hated Stepan but he put up the results


Results??

I have to come on here more often and keep you sane.....50 points from a 1C is not results


Lol haha Thanks Brother I appreciate it...I should have clarified...I meant Stepans results were similar to ROR....50 pts from a 1C is def not good


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Go NYR
Posted 2018-08-05 5:38 PM (#708494 - in reply to #708478)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 3:14 PM

stepan 3rd line player traded to Arizona for the Lias pick another 3rd line player.

Anderson is younger and cheaper. We won that trade!

I agree with this. But I will add, why are we just assuming Lias is a 3rd line player. Time will tell on that. He could be a 1st or 2nd line player, and he could be a 3rd line or worse player...we'll see.

As for Stepan being our # 1, that really doesn't mean much. He was our # 1...that doesn't make him A # 1. I think it was a good deal for the reasons I mentioned. We'll see what Lias turns out to be.



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Go NYR
Posted 2018-08-05 5:42 PM (#708495 - in reply to #708488)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 3:31 PM

I get ya....But,

what really accounts for a players value? It's what a team is willing to pay to get that player.

Hard to turn a bronze type player like stepan into a gold player

Exactly. You keep brining up ROR, is it possible he is simply valued much higher than Stepan? I think that is certainly possible. He is a more dynamic offensive player. We also waited until the week of to deal Stepan. We were up against a clear deadline. That is something you could get on Gorton for, but we were also trying to make one last run with Stepan, so I get it.


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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 6:09 PM (#708497 - in reply to #708495)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Read the writeups ....who would you draft?

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/214318/lias-andersson

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/300831/casey-mittelstadt
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 6:11 PM (#708498 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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One report says electric offensive presence........the other says excellent role player
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-05 6:20 PM (#708499 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Mikey I think Lias is going to be a good player
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-05 6:23 PM (#708500 - in reply to #708499)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-05 8:20 PM

Mikey I think Lias is going to be a good player

I hope so! Lets hope So! Gordie and Gorton hope so...but we saw him at the end of the season and saw he had trouble keeping up with the speed of the play...Lias needs to help Make the Rangers Great Again
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Go NYR
Posted 2018-08-05 7:25 PM (#708501 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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You are confusing things man. We can debate whether or not drafting Lias was the right pick, although I don't know how you really do that in any factual way right now given Lias has played like 8 NHL games, but I digress. BUT that doesn't mean the Stepan trade was a bad trade for the # 7 pick in the draft. If the Lias pick is a miss, that makes it the wrong pick, it doesn't make it a bad trade value wise and cap wise.

And I think Lias is going to be a good player as well. Worst case in the same range as Stepan I believe. But again that is pure speculation at this point. We'll know a lot more after this upcoming season. We need to have patience with the 5 first round picks the past two drafts.




Edited by Go NYR 2018-08-05 7:27 PM
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concust
Posted 2018-08-06 8:33 AM (#708502 - in reply to #708501)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Go NYR - 2018-08-05 8:25 PM

You are confusing things man. We can debate whether or not drafting Lias was the right pick, although I don't know how you really do that in any factual way right now given Lias has played like 8 NHL games, but I digress. BUT that doesn't mean the Stepan trade was a bad trade for the # 7 pick in the draft. If the Lias pick is a miss, that makes it the wrong pick, it doesn't make it a bad trade value wise and cap wise.

And I think Lias is going to be a good player as well. Worst case in the same range as Stepan I believe. But again that is pure speculation at this point. We'll know a lot more after this upcoming season. We need to have patience with the 5 first round picks the past two drafts.




I agree with this. I am a big fan of Stepan despite the contract, he was under-appreciated and provided value, and I did not want to see him go. Having said that we got good enough value out of that deal, especially if you consider that the first step of the rebuild (a year early).

Saying Andersson was a missed pick at this point is absolutely ridiculous... we have two 18 year olds who already have NHL experience and could still both project to be top 6 centers. They get about 4 years before we can judge if they were busts or not.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-06 9:18 AM (#708508 - in reply to #708502)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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concust - 2018-08-06 10:33 AM

Go NYR - 2018-08-05 8:25 PM

You are confusing things man. We can debate whether or not drafting Lias was the right pick, although I don't know how you really do that in any factual way right now given Lias has played like 8 NHL games, but I digress. BUT that doesn't mean the Stepan trade was a bad trade for the # 7 pick in the draft. If the Lias pick is a miss, that makes it the wrong pick, it doesn't make it a bad trade value wise and cap wise.

And I think Lias is going to be a good player as well. Worst case in the same range as Stepan I believe. But again that is pure speculation at this point. We'll know a lot more after this upcoming season. We need to have patience with the 5 first round picks the past two drafts.




I agree with this. I am a big fan of Stepan despite the contract, he was under-appreciated and provided value, and I did not want to see him go. Having said that we got good enough value out of that deal, especially if you consider that the first step of the rebuild (a year early).

Saying Andersson was a missed pick at this point is absolutely ridiculous... we have two 18 year olds who already have NHL experience and could still both project to be top 6 centers. They get about 4 years before we can judge if they were busts or not.


ROR got traded twice and got 4 and 5 pieces for each trade....Lias may not be a missed pick but he was def a reach
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