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The D
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x10003q
Posted 2018-09-20 11:11 AM (#709546)
Subject: The D



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Locks:Staal, Skjei, Shattenkirk

Near locks:
McQuaid - they didn't trade for this guy to send him to Hartford. If he plays well, he becomes available for a playoff team, UFA on a cheap contract- $2mill
Smith - i think he bounces back and they give him a chance to earn his $4.35mill cap hit. He is harder to trade because of the contract - this and 2 more years
Pionk - showed he can play - he can also move through waivers

questionable - sort of in order
Tony D - if Quinn has patience, maybe TD can relax and make less mistakes. With AV gone, 1 mistake wont glue him to the bench, cannot go though waivers so he stays with the Rangers
Claesson - looks like a physical guy who can step in, could be a good 7th
Gilmour - seems to be able to compete at NHL level, similar game to Pionk
O'Gara - played up and down in a bad situation - could become a steady stay at home, but not moving ahead of McQ or Smith at this point
Hajek - so far does not look lost - probably good to get some time in Hartford
Lindgren - Hartford

This is going to be interesting to watch.


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Fish
Posted 2018-09-20 11:59 AM (#709549 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D



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I agree it's likely that Smith makes the opening night roster, as a starter too. I also think his edge is probably more to Quinn's liking, and perhaps zone coverage will be more effective for him than the man to man that Vigneault implemented. Also expect Pionk to make it, which means we're really talking the 7th d-man here...possibly 8 if they're afraid of losing someone. My guess is that Gilmour, DeAngelo and Claesson are the most likely to figure in that mix, with Hajek and Lindgren almost assuredly going to Hartford. That leaves O'Gara as my likely cut...my guess on who out of the other three, I think DeAngelo has the most talent, but he'd be cut if it was my team...I'd probably look at Claesson versus Gilmour for the seventh spot
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Fish
Posted 2018-09-20 12:03 PM (#709550 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D



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Should probably also note that Gilmour and O'Gara are waiver exempt (as are Hajek and Lindgren), so that likely factors into it...
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Gravey09
Posted 2018-09-21 6:41 AM (#709556 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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It will evolve so the start is likely more an asset management and development exercise. The locks and near locks look to be about right. As the season progresses constant assessment of asset and development management will be in play. Opportunities may arise in the league where teams are faced with a need and we have a Dman or two playing well with reasonable contract status. Of course the always present internal injuries and sub optimal performance present opportunities.
At this stage it is good to have that list of players. Not a statement that this list is a path to the Cup just a viable bunch of players that may be able to grab an opportunity. Seems to be a decent fix of players and contracts that represents some agility and development. Necessary at this point in a re-build.
Of course the starting six may astound and become the league envy!! ...
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2018-09-22 5:49 AM (#709569 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D



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Tony D is good with the puck, and horrible away from it. I see the skill set and the room for improvement. He needs to play, but will be a liability on any NHL team for at least another season. Do you subject him to waivers knowing the risk of losing him for nothing, or try to trade him?

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robstones
Posted 2018-09-22 7:02 AM (#709570 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D



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I haven't noticed DeAngelo be horrible away from the puck in preseason so far.

Two game sample is nothing, but being that this is a clean slate for everyone, DeAngelo may very well make the team.

I like Pionk, but he may get cut
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Rranger
Posted 2018-09-22 9:12 AM (#709572 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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I don't see Pionk going anywhere. I think he's a lock. in no particular order Pionk, Shattenkirk, Staal, Skjei, Smith, McQuaid, DeAngelo and Claesson. Eventually one will be traded. Lindgren and Hajek have 30-40 games in Hartford to prove they are ready to move up and there are always injuries. Or its next year for those two. The best of the rest is Crawley.
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concust
Posted 2018-09-24 9:40 AM (#709635 - in reply to #709572)
Subject: Re: The D



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Rranger - 2018-09-22 10:12 AM

I don't see Pionk going anywhere. I think he's a lock. in no particular order Pionk, Shattenkirk, Staal, Skjei, Smith, McQuaid, DeAngelo and Claesson. Eventually one will be traded. Lindgren and Hajek have 30-40 games in Hartford to prove they are ready to move up and there are always injuries. Or its next year for those two. The best of the rest is Crawley.


100%

They're not carrying 8 defensemen though, so Pionk may be sent down initially due to his waiver status. Or like you said someone will/should get traded.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-09-24 10:23 AM (#709641 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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I think Smith is still very vulnerable to being sent down, and they very well might try it hoping he does get claimed to get out of that contract. Overpaid after a half a good series against Montreal. Love his grit but you have to be reliable defensively and his game is full of warts. Definitely not top four and to much money for 3rd pair. Pionk some nights last season was the Rangers best defenseman and he’s in the same group plus Claesson, McQuaid and Shattenkirk. Which does stiffen up the dcorp. Ultimately IMO only Claesson and or Tony D will be moved if Smith isn’t. Can always hope some team wants Staal but that’s wishful thinking.
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x10003q
Posted 2018-09-24 11:16 AM (#709644 - in reply to #709641)
Subject: Re: The D



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Rranger - 2018-09-24 12:23 PM

I think Smith is still very vulnerable to being sent down, and they very well might try it hoping he does get claimed to get out of that contract. Overpaid after a half a good series against Montreal. Love his grit but you have to be reliable defensively and his game is full of warts. Definitely not top four and to much money for 3rd pair. Pionk some nights last season was the Rangers best defenseman and he’s in the same group plus Claesson, McQuaid and Shattenkirk. Which does stiffen up the dcorp. Ultimately IMO only Claesson and or Tony D will be moved if Smith isn’t. Can always hope some team wants Staal but that’s wishful thinking.


Staal has this season plus 2 years with a $5.7mill cap hit and he now has a modified no trade. There would have to be a perfect storm of a contender needing Staal, Staal approving the team and some sort of money match. That is the very definition of wishful thinking.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-09-24 12:04 PM (#709645 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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The money match would play into how a deal went down. If a non contending team acquiring Staal had some $ wiggle room to burn that creates a different compensation for Staal than a team with no $ wiggle room. The Rangers would then be getting back some of what they are trying to unload with Staal. But as mentioned wishful thinking with little likelihood of happening. An albatross for sure.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-09-24 12:37 PM (#709646 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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Staal, Smith and DeAngelo all need to be moved. The sooner the better. Staal is an easy trade. He had a very good year last year. His limited NTC means nothing. Simply tell him accept a deal or welcome to the minors. They may have to retain some of his salary.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-09-24 1:41 PM (#709647 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D



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Very interesting regarding Staal...It says he has a modified no trade...So I assume he can get sent to the minors? But I wouldnt do that to him...He is a solid soldier...good Ranger
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concust
Posted 2018-09-24 2:02 PM (#709648 - in reply to #709644)
Subject: Re: The D



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x10003q - 2018-09-24 12:16 PM

Rranger - 2018-09-24 12:23 PM

I think Smith is still very vulnerable to being sent down, and they very well might try it hoping he does get claimed to get out of that contract. Overpaid after a half a good series against Montreal. Love his grit but you have to be reliable defensively and his game is full of warts. Definitely not top four and to much money for 3rd pair. Pionk some nights last season was the Rangers best defenseman and he’s in the same group plus Claesson, McQuaid and Shattenkirk. Which does stiffen up the dcorp. Ultimately IMO only Claesson and or Tony D will be moved if Smith isn’t. Can always hope some team wants Staal but that’s wishful thinking.


Staal has this season plus 2 years with a $5.7mill cap hit and he now has a modified no trade. There would have to be a perfect storm of a contender needing Staal, Staal approving the team and some sort of money match. That is the very definition of wishful thinking.


I don't think this is as outlandish as some people do. Staal cleaned up his game last year and can still be a solid third pair defenseman on a contending team, he can eat PK minutes which allows a team to keep more dynamic players fresher for 5v5 and PP.

The contract is a bit of a problem but it's 3 more seasons total, and if the Rangers pick up the tab for, say, half of it, it becomes a pretty market-rate contract for a 32 year old depth defenseman with a boatload of playoff experience. If a team is thinking their window is open for a few years, it is not the worst deal they could make. I would question how much we'd get in return in a deal like that, but at some point it's primarily a salary dump and you take what you can get.

I don't think Staal finishes his contract, or his career, with the Rangers.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-09-24 3:24 PM (#709652 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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i don’t see teams lining up to get Staal even at half the money. Defensive defensemen that don’t get overly physically involved are not very attractive to contending teams. If he gets traded it will be a dump, hopefully in a deal with no salary retention. I think his days of attracting contending teams interest are over.
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concust
Posted 2018-09-25 9:23 AM (#709789 - in reply to #709652)
Subject: Re: The D



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Rranger - 2018-09-24 4:24 PM

i don’t see teams lining up to get Staal even at half the money. Defensive defensemen that don’t get overly physically involved are not very attractive to contending teams. If he gets traded it will be a dump, hopefully in a deal with no salary retention. I think his days of attracting contending teams interest are over.


If Nick Holden can get moved to a contender, Staal can get moved. The biggest complicating factor is that second year remaining on his deal. If he was a pure rental at the end of this year he'd get moved without a problem even at full price (pending his approval of course)

I think the emergence of some of the unheralded guys, Pionk especially, makes Staal redundant on this team. There are a number of "in-between" guys both on defense and up front that are going to get squeezed out by the younger guys. I think the Rangers have to move some of these guys and prune the roster in order to get more time for the younger guys moving forward.
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robstones
Posted 2018-09-25 6:29 PM (#709800 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D



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Staal had a good year last year. He was our only consistent guy back there till Pionk showed up. He was better than McDonagh
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Rranger
Posted 2018-09-25 8:08 PM (#709801 - in reply to #709789)
Subject: Re: The D


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concust - 2018-09-25 8:23 AM

Rranger - 2018-09-24 4:24 PM

i don’t see teams lining up to get Staal even at half the money. Defensive defensemen that don’t get overly physically involved are not very attractive to contending teams. If he gets traded it will be a dump, hopefully in a deal with no salary retention. I think his days of attracting contending teams interest are over.


If Nick Holden can get moved to a contender, Staal can get moved. The biggest complicating factor is that second year remaining on his deal. If he was a pure rental at the end of this year he'd get moved without a problem even at full price (pending his approval of course)

I think the emergence of some of the unheralded guys, Pionk especially, makes Staal redundant on this team. There are a number of "in-between" guys both on defense and up front that are going to get squeezed out by the younger guys. I think the Rangers have to move some of these guys and prune the roster in order to get more time for the younger guys moving forward.




Holden was added as a bottom of the dcorp fill in. His contract not a issue. Most contenders would have to do a financial shuffle to accommodate Staals contract, it’s a big bite. Anybody can be moved at any time as long as there are two willing partners in a deal so ya he could be traded, but I’d be very curious to see what GM would trade for him. It smacks of a Edmonton move.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-09-26 5:05 AM (#709804 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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If you retain half of Staal's contract, you can find a taker. Girardi played big minutes for Tampa and he sucks at this point of his career compared to Staal.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-09-26 8:52 AM (#709807 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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They both suck.
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concust
Posted 2018-09-26 10:37 AM (#709817 - in reply to #709800)
Subject: Re: The D



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robstones - 2018-09-25 7:29 PM

Staal had a good year last year. He was our only consistent guy back there till Pionk showed up. He was better than McDonagh


I agree. McDonagh had a very inconsistent year.
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concust
Posted 2018-09-26 10:40 AM (#709818 - in reply to #709801)
Subject: Re: The D



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Rranger - 2018-09-25 9:08 PM

concust - 2018-09-25 8:23 AM

Rranger - 2018-09-24 4:24 PM

i don’t see teams lining up to get Staal even at half the money. Defensive defensemen that don’t get overly physically involved are not very attractive to contending teams. If he gets traded it will be a dump, hopefully in a deal with no salary retention. I think his days of attracting contending teams interest are over.


If Nick Holden can get moved to a contender, Staal can get moved. The biggest complicating factor is that second year remaining on his deal. If he was a pure rental at the end of this year he'd get moved without a problem even at full price (pending his approval of course)

I think the emergence of some of the unheralded guys, Pionk especially, makes Staal redundant on this team. There are a number of "in-between" guys both on defense and up front that are going to get squeezed out by the younger guys. I think the Rangers have to move some of these guys and prune the roster in order to get more time for the younger guys moving forward.




Holden was added as a bottom of the dcorp fill in. His contract not a issue. Most contenders would have to do a financial shuffle to accommodate Staals contract, it’s a big bite. Anybody can be moved at any time as long as there are two willing partners in a deal so ya he could be traded, but I’d be very curious to see what GM would trade for him. It smacks of a Edmonton move.


That's what I said in the previous post, a bottom pair depth defenseman. At half his contract cost, it wouldn't be an issue for a contending GM. I never said he could be traded as a first pair defenseman for a buttload of assets. As Ranger fans we've seen our share of sucky defensemen in the past few decades but Staal is not one of them, yet.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-09-26 11:39 AM (#709823 - in reply to #709546)
Subject: Re: The D


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Colorado's defenseman blow. I would think you could package Staal at half retained, DeAngelo and Nieves for a second and third round pick. Clear roster space out.
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concust
Posted 2018-09-26 11:57 AM (#709824 - in reply to #709823)
Subject: Re: The D



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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-09-26 12:39 PM

Colorado's defenseman blow. I would think you could package Staal at half retained, DeAngelo and Nieves for a second and third round pick. Clear roster space out.


Maybe you could get Ryan Graves back.
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Mandar
Posted 2018-09-26 12:59 PM (#709830 - in reply to #709824)
Subject: Re: The D


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concust - 2018-09-26 1:57 PM

itsmcilrathtime - 2018-09-26 12:39 PM

Colorado's defenseman blow. I would think you could package Staal at half retained, DeAngelo and Nieves for a second and third round pick. Clear roster space out.


Maybe you could get Ryan Graves back.


He got blasted on HF when he tried to suggest the same thing there. They sent him scared out of there.
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