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Game 66: New York Rangers @ Dallas Stars 3/5/19 - 8:30pm - MSG
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-06 3:56 PM (#722224 - in reply to #722223)
Subject: Re: Game 66: New York Rangers @ Dallas Stars 3/5/19 - 8:30pm - MSG


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Steady Eddie - 2019-03-06 5:29 PM

NTHockey - 2019-03-06 11:27 AM

Moved up one spot to eighth for draft. Next 4 games (@ Detroit, Devils, @ Edmonton, @ Vancouver), if losses we could move up two more spots.


It's like reverse engineering. Each loss against a bottom dweller is worth 4 points.

Woo!
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PV29
Posted 2019-03-06 7:01 PM (#722227 - in reply to #722203)
Subject: Re: Game 66: New York Rangers @ Dallas Stars 3/5/19 - 8:30pm - MSG



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concust - 2019-03-06 9:25 AM

(Speaking generally, not directly to Rranger)

It's so common for the board consensus to believe that there's no market for a player that the board deems "sucks" but let's be realistic about it. If you had read this board prior to his buyout, you'd think Dan Girardi would never work again - but he was resigned by a Cup-favorite team to a $3m contract and he plays 17+ minutes a night. Did he get better overnight? No. He plays in a more sheltered environment with better offensive and defensive players around him, and that keeps any mistakes largely out of the spotlight.

Shattenkirk is in a similar situation. His issue isn't that he's just terrible, the issue is that his flaws are easily exposed on a weak team, and that makes his contract especially unpalatable. Teams, in general, recognize this, and in a better situation where he doesn't have the spotlight of NYC and the onus of being the most experienced offensive defenseman on the team.

Having said all that I don't think he will be moved this offseason. The team is still lacking for legitimate NHL defensemen and I think they're hesitant to go into full tank mode so they're not going to just put out 6 defensemen under 25. Like it or not I believe we're stuck with him.



Girardi's game suffered during his last season with NYR because he was hurt and/or nursing various nicks that would've kept many players out of the lineup. There was no question about his heart, his toughness, his desire to play. The guy is a warrior on the ice. When healthy he was a very effective Dman, perhaps the best shutdown defenseman on the team for years. He battled Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin in their respective primes and was a large reason for the Rangers success for 2010 to 2015. And if memory serves, his game actually improved towards the end of his last season with NYR, mostly because he got somewhat healthy.

He's now in a great place where his flaws are compensated for, so I agree with your take there. But he's also 34 years old with a lot of miles on him. Shattenkirk was NEVER Girardi, and he's 4 years younger. He's not physical, not fast enough to back in defenses, has a weak-ass shot that rarely hits the net, loses board battles regularly, and gets beat in the slot way too often. My memory of Girardi was that (when healthy) he battled and was effective along the boards and in front of the net. He blocked shots, he had a decent shot and he actually hit the net sometimes. I can't see any comparison between Girardi and Shattenkirk.

The point I guess is, Shattenkirk is lousy and he's younger than Girardi and mostly healthy. Nobody wants him, his name was never brought up at the deadline and he's signed for another two years so he's not even a rental. The abuse he gets here is very warranted.
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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-08 7:19 AM (#722352 - in reply to #722227)
Subject: Re: Game 66: New York Rangers @ Dallas Stars 3/5/19 - 8:30pm - MSG


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PV29 - 2019-03-06 6:01 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:25 AM

(Speaking generally, not directly to Rranger)

It's so common for the board consensus to believe that there's no market for a player that the board deems "sucks" but let's be realistic about it. If you had read this board prior to his buyout, you'd think Dan Girardi would never work again - but he was resigned by a Cup-favorite team to a $3m contract and he plays 17+ minutes a night. Did he get better overnight? No. He plays in a more sheltered environment with better offensive and defensive players around him, and that keeps any mistakes largely out of the spotlight.

Shattenkirk is in a similar situation. His issue isn't that he's just terrible, the issue is that his flaws are easily exposed on a weak team, and that makes his contract especially unpalatable. Teams, in general, recognize this, and in a better situation where he doesn't have the spotlight of NYC and the onus of being the most experienced offensive defenseman on the team.

Having said all that I don't think he will be moved this offseason. The team is still lacking for legitimate NHL defensemen and I think they're hesitant to go into full tank mode so they're not going to just put out 6 defensemen under 25. Like it or not I believe we're stuck with him.



Girardi's game suffered during his last season with NYR because he was hurt and/or nursing various nicks that would've kept many players out of the lineup. There was no question about his heart, his toughness, his desire to play. The guy is a warrior on the ice. When healthy he was a very effective Dman, perhaps the best shutdown defenseman on the team for years. He battled Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin in their respective primes and was a large reason for the Rangers success for 2010 to 2015. And if memory serves, his game actually improved towards the end of his last season with NYR, mostly because he got somewhat healthy.

He's now in a great place where his flaws are compensated for, so I agree with your take there. But he's also 34 years old with a lot of miles on him. Shattenkirk was NEVER Girardi, and he's 4 years younger. He's not physical, not fast enough to back in defenses, has a weak-ass shot that rarely hits the net, loses board battles regularly, and gets beat in the slot way too often. My memory of Girardi was that (when healthy) he battled and was effective along the boards and in front of the net. He blocked shots, he had a decent shot and he actually hit the net sometimes. I can't see any comparison between Girardi and Shattenkirk.

The point I guess is, Shattenkirk is lousy and he's younger than Girardi and mostly healthy. Nobody wants him, his name was never brought up at the deadline and he's signed for another two years so he's not even a rental. The abuse he gets here is very warranted.



Well said P.V. Girardi while not as physically blessed as Shattenkirk has all the mental intangibles Shattenkirk does not possess. Which made him a reclaimable player while Shattenkirks complete lack of mental toughness makes him very risky. If Gorton can pull off a Scott Gomez type deal "all hail Gorton" Personally I think the return would be much more lean like a McQuaid if anything.
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concust
Posted 2019-03-08 8:18 AM (#722354 - in reply to #722227)
Subject: Re: Game 66: New York Rangers @ Dallas Stars 3/5/19 - 8:30pm - MSG



Legend

Posts: 15798
10000
Location: USA
PV29 - 2019-03-06 8:01 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:25 AM

(Speaking generally, not directly to Rranger)

It's so common for the board consensus to believe that there's no market for a player that the board deems "sucks" but let's be realistic about it. If you had read this board prior to his buyout, you'd think Dan Girardi would never work again - but he was resigned by a Cup-favorite team to a $3m contract and he plays 17+ minutes a night. Did he get better overnight? No. He plays in a more sheltered environment with better offensive and defensive players around him, and that keeps any mistakes largely out of the spotlight.

Shattenkirk is in a similar situation. His issue isn't that he's just terrible, the issue is that his flaws are easily exposed on a weak team, and that makes his contract especially unpalatable. Teams, in general, recognize this, and in a better situation where he doesn't have the spotlight of NYC and the onus of being the most experienced offensive defenseman on the team.

Having said all that I don't think he will be moved this offseason. The team is still lacking for legitimate NHL defensemen and I think they're hesitant to go into full tank mode so they're not going to just put out 6 defensemen under 25. Like it or not I believe we're stuck with him.



Girardi's game suffered during his last season with NYR because he was hurt and/or nursing various nicks that would've kept many players out of the lineup. There was no question about his heart, his toughness, his desire to play. The guy is a warrior on the ice. When healthy he was a very effective Dman, perhaps the best shutdown defenseman on the team for years. He battled Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin in their respective primes and was a large reason for the Rangers success for 2010 to 2015. And if memory serves, his game actually improved towards the end of his last season with NYR, mostly because he got somewhat healthy.

He's now in a great place where his flaws are compensated for, so I agree with your take there. But he's also 34 years old with a lot of miles on him. Shattenkirk was NEVER Girardi, and he's 4 years younger. He's not physical, not fast enough to back in defenses, has a weak-ass shot that rarely hits the net, loses board battles regularly, and gets beat in the slot way too often. My memory of Girardi was that (when healthy) he battled and was effective along the boards and in front of the net. He blocked shots, he had a decent shot and he actually hit the net sometimes. I can't see any comparison between Girardi and Shattenkirk.

The point I guess is, Shattenkirk is lousy and he's younger than Girardi and mostly healthy. Nobody wants him, his name was never brought up at the deadline and he's signed for another two years so he's not even a rental. The abuse he gets here is very warranted.


The point was not to compare styles, (which I did not do) but rather to illustrate that there's a market out there for almost every (legitimate) NHL player, and sometimes a guy "sucks" on your team because it's no longer the right fit, but, he may still fit very well on another team.

Shattenkirk was never a great fit on this team, and especially now with the emergence of Deangelo, his mediocre play and contract become anchors. In a different situation on a different team with different needs, and he could still be an effective player.
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