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The non-chippy Rangers
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x10003q
Posted 2022-06-09 8:36 PM (#793105)
Subject: The non-chippy Rangers




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In the playoffs, the chippy teams benefit from the refs swallowing their whistles since they do not call what they call in the reg season and hide behind "we don't want to affect the game". But they do affect the game by not calling penalties.

Pens, Canes and now bolts - all chippy inteference teams who setup their game to slow down the rangers highly skilled but never ever ever chippy Rangers. The only top 6 guy who has shown real chippyness/ consistent hitting is Vetrano. Strome shows a little. CK has become a turn the other cheek guy with Zib. Panarin is just too small and euro and Copp has been invisible, although it is hard to say if he is hurt. But realistically, Copp is not a guy who you have to keep an eye on for hits.

The third line has Laf and that is it. So out of the guys who are supposed to score only Vetrano, Laf and Strome get chippy around the goalies. Moving Chytil up or kakko up softens the top 6 even more.

Panarin CK Zib are here for a while - who do you mix in to bring some sandpaper to the top 6? Laf looks like he has some, but Chytil and kakko do not. Copp? Strome is probably gone. Is vetrano a top 6 guy or better suited to a middle 6/3rd line job? It is a bit of a problem.
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PV29
Posted 2022-06-12 12:14 PM (#793281 - in reply to #793105)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers





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100% accurate observation. The Bolts learned the hard way three seasons ago that you need to play "playoff hockey", the "man's game", to win. They added Maroon which was a big addition, but they also added Cernak, Bogosian, Bellemare, Hagel, Paul, and Perry. All of these guys play with an edge. They push, cross-check, and start scrums at every chance. They clearly intimidated the Rangers at times. When it became clear that the Kid Line was having success, the Bolts targeted Kakko and Lafreniere for special attention after the whistle, and got physical with Chytil.

it's not only who you add to make the team harder to play against in the playoffs. It's also the existing guys adjusting and becoming miserable jerks in the playoffs. Have you ever seen McDonagh so chippy before he joined the Bolts? Stamkos was a smooth skill player his whole career, but now he's a nasty bastard in the playoffs. Palat, Kucherov, Killorn, and Hedman are world-class talents, but all play with an edge in the playoffs. The Rangers have not yet learned what Tampa has learned and mastered.

Kreider has no excuse. He's been to the Finals and has seen many playoff wars. He should be leading the charge like Stamkos does, but instead he does the fly-by's and turns the other cheek in the scrums. A guy with his size and strength should be jacking fools up after every whistle. You don't get room on the ice by being cute. You get space on the ice in the playoffs by scaring the opponents. Messier would make guys eat his stick if they got too close. Kreider is a lost cause in this regard.

Zibanejad has never been a physical player and he's had concussion issues. So we can forget him making the transition like Stamkos has. Panarin ..... yeah, let's move on.

Lafreniere looks like he's willing to get nasty in the playoffs. He needs a linemate that has his back. Chytil at center with a bruiser on the right would be a nice fit. When does Sammy Blais come back?

Forget Reaves. He was useless against Tampa. Maroon called his bluff and he was never heard from again. His pregame antics in the locker room and tunnel are a joke now. I'm fine with getting rid of him as long as the Rangers replace him with a younger, more hungry, and more aggressive physical 4th line winger.

I have confidence that Drury watched carefully and learned what he needs to do after the series with Tampa. I look for him to replace the smaller, less physical forwards with bigger, more aggressive players. An overhaul is not needed. 2 or 3 new faces should do it, as long as they are the right fit.  Strome, Kakko, and maybe Motte are gone next season.

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Fish
Posted 2022-06-13 10:04 AM (#793285 - in reply to #793105)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers



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I liked the edge that Trouba, Lindgren, Lafreniere and Vatrano brought.

The lack of anything from Reaves and Goodrow was surprising (perhaps Goodrow was too hurt, but he has to bring that edge otherwise why exactly is he in the line-up). Reaves I think is just at that point where time has caught up with him, so we'll wear him for another year and then hopefully he's gone. Perhaps he would have been better as more of a part timer this year, and could bring more in the playoffs...but not sure even that would have worked.

Strome can be a chippy when he wants, but he was banged up, and isn't going to scare anyone..so I think it comes down mostly to the 4th line still being a work in progress, and the third line being a line in transition. Perhaps having Blais around might have helped, but with his injury history, maybe he doesn't make it through the first 2 rounds anyway.
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x10003q
Posted 2022-06-13 11:33 AM (#793289 - in reply to #793105)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers




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Location: 17 miles from MSG
Reaves ran out of gas. He was not good during shifts when the Rangers got caught in their own end, especially in these last 2 playoff series. The Rangers were pinned in quite a bit, so the odds of it happening while he was on the ice were quite high. He should have been pulled for a faster skater earlier. He was a positive during the year. At age 35, he can still do his job,
but maybe he should be rested more often to preserve something for the playoffs. He played 69 games this season - probably too many games.

Goodrow did not look like he was skating normally in the last few games against the Bolts. His foot might have been not fully healed and then he blocked a shot with that foot. Its too bad because he had an excellent season.

It also turns out Strome was playing with some kind of hip injury since halfway thru the year. Clearly, his goal scoring faded, but he toughed it out. He was also a guy who did not back down around the net and added chippyness. I doubt he returns unless he is willing to give the Rangers a discount or other offers are not much better than the Rangers.

I hope Blais recovers and shows what he started to show last fall.

Kravtsov just signed an $875m 1 way. He could be a cap savior if he can play or he is just part of a sign and trade deal.

This is going to be an interesting summer and
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Av-merican
Posted 2022-06-13 2:04 PM (#793290 - in reply to #793105)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers





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Reaves is a pretty terrible hockey player. He was brought in to answer a Tom Wilson issue that never resurfaced.

I don't think the Rangers have a "chippyness" problem. They're PLENTY chippy. The issue is not how to draw more calls, the issue is now getting better at even strength, at which the Rangers were not good by any measure. They relied on a lot on insane goaltending and timely power play goals.

Look, they made it to the Conference Final and took the two-time defending champs to six games. Absolutely nothing to be ashamed of here. The rebuild appears to be over, and they have a good foundation to build off of.

There is no need to get "chippy"-er. They got enough grit. What they need is a little better depth at center, more skill, more speed, and better defense.

Also, and this might not be a popular take on these boards, but I think Jacob Trouba is one of the most overrated defensemen in the game. The sooner NY moves on from him, the better. The rest of that D-core (Fox, Lindgren, Miller) is good. It's not a coincidence that he got his doors blown off by an aging Steven Stamkos in the final game. Maybe if the guy focused more on covering players properly instead of finding new and exciting ways to throw his elbows around, he'd be a halfway decent defender.
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LaFrenger
Posted 2022-06-14 7:58 AM (#793292 - in reply to #793105)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers




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I’m not sure the Rangers are knocking on the door as many fans seem to think. The Rangers had a pretty good path to the conference final, caught a huge break with a red hot Crosby knocked out of any influence over the last three games to comeback and beat Pitt, and Carolina was the pick of the litter to play in the conference final four. Could have easily met Florida, Washington or Toronto then what? For sure that would have been a tougher path. It was discussed earlier in the year the Rangers style of play was probably unsustainable in the playoffs. When was the last time a speed and skill team won the cup without a good influence of hard nosed, gritty in you face players that will drop the gloves at a moments notice. Guys who get in opposition players faces in every scrum. Guys like Maroon who realize it’s Trouba who just whacked him and goes out of his way to engage, managing to knock Troubas helmet off, gets in a mugging and no penalty. It’s the game within a game, those types of players play and get away with all playoffs. They learned how to walk the line, it’s part of their playoff seasoning learning curve. Reaves just didn't do any of that, he sees himself as a responder to opposition antics, not a initiator that was obvious. I think he did up the courage of some players over the course of the regular season but had no influence on anything in the playoffs reduced to yapping in game ended scrums. move on there are younger versions that can and have to play to be effective in the playoffs. I hear the call for more grit, balls and compete level on the top two lines, see a need for it, as long as they can score. When I go down the forwards on the Rangers I have a lot of questions. Not with Zibanejad, he just needs linemates that will look after anyone that goes near him. Which he does not have, Maroon there’s that name again recognized game three or four that he had a shot at Zib on the boards and gave the extra high shot. No call and no Ranger responded. Can’t have that. I’m not sure, but doubt Kreider comes close to duplicating this year ever again, let alone next year. He is painted with the inconsistent brush, he wastes a all star potential power forward package 98.7% of the league can only dream about, but Rangers are stuck with him and Gallant has to have a talk about how he is wasting his size, speed and power, by not becoming a nastier player.. Can not afford to go to far on a Vatrano contract but he is a stop cap til hopefully Othmann and or Cuylle get here. The only guy the Rangers should have left off the second line is Panarin, no one is taking that deal.  Strome played his way off the team in the playoffs, especially considering the cash he thinks he's worth, and I don’t see Copp being worth what he’s going to want. The guy is a complimentary player who brings very little physicality, not overly competitive just shows a bit of brains when he has the puck, I just don’t see him as a hard nosed piece needed to beat Tampa. So top two lines your looking for a winger for Kreider and Zib, someone who will do the dirty work and a center and winger for Panarin. Who again the Rangers are stuck with, unless Drury pulls off a miracle trade. I wouldn’t rush to move Kappo or Chytil til I saw there first 40-50 games next year, They will both need to toughen up as they get older. I think Chytil showed more compete this year than the past and expect that from a more confident and mature Kappo next year. He never going to be a head banger but should be able to compete, and not back down as he matures, he is still a kid, but expect a lot more man in him starting next year.. This sitting of game Six just might be a great thing for him. Drury has some huge decisions, this team is aways from constructed to beat a Tampa. And until further notice the doorway goes through Tampa.

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PV29
Posted 2022-06-21 7:46 AM (#793312 - in reply to #793105)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers





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Do the Rangers have a player like Corey Perry? Nick Paul? Pat Maroon? P. E. Bellmare? Anthony Cirelli?

Watching the playoffs this year, those players on Tampa have really stood out because of their size, their strength, and their willingness to finish checks and get to the dirty areas of the ice with miserable attitudes. They wore the Rangers down just like they wore down the Leafs and Panthers. And as we approach Game 4 of the Finals you can see that they are doing it again to the Avs.

Until the Rangers get 3 or 4 guys like those guys to compliment their highly skilled forwards, they will not get beyond the conference finals.
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Fish
Posted 2022-06-21 11:24 AM (#793314 - in reply to #793312)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers



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PV29 - 2022-06-21 8:46 AM

Do the Rangers have a player like Corey Perry? Nick Paul? Pat Maroon? P. E. Bellmare? Anthony Cirelli?

Watching the playoffs this year, those players on Tampa have really stood out because of their size, their strength, and their willingness to finish checks and get to the dirty areas of the ice with miserable attitudes. They wore the Rangers down just like they wore down the Leafs and Panthers. And as we approach Game 4 of the Finals you can see that they are doing it again to the Avs.

Until the Rangers get 3 or 4 guys like those guys to compliment their highly skilled forwards, they will not get beyond the conference finals.


I think if you look at guys who are chippy, probably the chippiest guys on the Rangers these playoffs were Vatrano, Lindgren, Rooney, Trouba and to some extent Strome. These are the guys who would go into the tough spots, would lay hits or would get involved after the whistle. Miller seems to be still finding his physical game, but doesn't back down, and Schneider has shown glimpses of it, but has been focusing on playing his game. Motte too showed some grittiness, and in my mind was better than Bellemare, and not that far behind Cirelli.

If you compared the defense, the Rangers were more physical IMO..not my a huge margin, but with a modest advantage there. So it comes down to the forward group.

Reaves is clearly past his prime. He's a nice team mate, but he's slow and his hits always seem to be behind the play, rather than dictating it. Maroon is a better version of Reaves, but there's not really that many of those guys out there anymore.

As for the rest, Nick Paul has been an interesting story, and I think perhaps Sammy Blais could end up being a guy like that...so the Rangers had a guy like that, just not healthy...which has been one of the knocks on him.

I think I was most disappointed though in Goodrow and Kreider. Goodrow was brought in, in part to provide some of that grind...and we didn't really see it. We've got five more years of him, so perhaps he shows more, but he just didn't really show me that side of the game enough, particularly in the playoffs. I know I got on him early, and he outperformed from a production perspective this year, but the playoff game just never materialized. Perhaps he's not really that guy, or perhaps the injury hampered him...but he was pretty much a non-factor.

Kreider is a guy who could have provided some of that Perry chippiness, and didn't He's done it at times in his career, but never really on a consistent basis...and I think he missed an opportunity to do that in the playoffs. When he plays with an edge, he can be very effective.

I think Strome's injury curtailed his effectiveness in that area too. One of the things about Strome's game that gets overlooked, is that edge he plays with around the net...kind of like what Vatrano showed. I don't think he's worth more than $5M a year to the Rangers, but it was an area that he could've brought.

I think Rooney tried, but is probably a borderline 4th liner in the playoffs, and I think Lafreniere showed that he can bring that same Perry like side as he gets his game going. He's also not above pushing the rules in that Perry mould...so feel like that's something we should expect more of going forward.

The biggest thing that let the Rangers down in the end was their 5 on 5 offense, and that was on show all year long. They struggled in part because they went into the year without an established top six right wing. Their defensive structure at even strength also needs some work, but with this being a younger team, I can see that being addressed as players get more experience. Perhaps the 5v5 also gets a boost with the potential emergence of Chytil, Kakko and Lafreniere...so we'll have to wait and see.
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PV29
Posted 2022-06-21 12:52 PM (#793316 - in reply to #793105)
Subject: Re: The non-chippy Rangers





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Fair points all around. Strome's injury was far more serious than I could've imagined and I give the guy a lot of credit for toughing it out.

Lafreniere showed me something. He's not going to back down, and may actually be an antagonist at times. The Rangers need that.

I'll only add one thing here. The Rangers may have some guys coming up through the system that can add that "tough to play against" quality. Cuylle and Othmann may fit the need, but it may not be for another year or two.
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